Osprey
Join Date: Feb 2001
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As a techie who looks at complicated mechanisms on machines intended for flight with an eyebrow raised, can I just ask what the recovery procedure is should the engines/nacelles fail in their 'forward flight' mode?
Shy,
That was the thought that occurred to me - reminded me of the apocryphal advice from Russian instructors to the Libyans: "Don't worry about the landing - the Israelis will take care of that."
That was the thought that occurred to me - reminded me of the apocryphal advice from Russian instructors to the Libyans: "Don't worry about the landing - the Israelis will take care of that."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Bell Boeing Strategic Alliance Scores Five-Year Contract for V-22 Osprey
Bell Helicopter | Apr 1, 2008
FORT WORTH, TEXAS: Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. company, announced today that the U.S. Department of Defense has awarded a $10.4 billion, five-year Multi-Year Procurement contract for 167 V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft to a strategic alliance between Bell Helicopter and The Boeing Company.
"This is a significant step in the V-22 program," said Dick Millman, Bell Helicopter president and CEO. "This five-year contract will allow us to plan much further out as we order long-lead materials, invest for capacity growth, increase our production rate, and deliver these unique aircraft on time to a war-fighting customer who really needs them."
The contract calls for 141 MV-22 aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and 26 CV-22 aircraft for the Air Force Special Operations Command. To date, the Bell Boeing alliance has delivered a total of 100 V-22 aircraft to the U.S. military. The Marines currently have 12 MV-22s deployed in combat at Al Asad Air Base in Iraq.
The world's first production tiltrotor, the V-22 combines the vertical performance of a helicopter with the high speed and range of a fixed wing aircraft. The V-22 offers twice the speed, three times the payload, five times the range of the older aircraft it will replace.
Bell Helicopter is an industry-leading producer of commercial and military, manned and unmanned vertical lift aircraft and the pioneer of the revolutionary tilt rotor aircraft. Globally recognized for world-class customer service, innovation and superior quality, Bell's global workforce serves customers flying Bell aircraft in more than 120 countries.
Bell Helicopter | Apr 1, 2008
FORT WORTH, TEXAS: Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. company, announced today that the U.S. Department of Defense has awarded a $10.4 billion, five-year Multi-Year Procurement contract for 167 V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft to a strategic alliance between Bell Helicopter and The Boeing Company.
"This is a significant step in the V-22 program," said Dick Millman, Bell Helicopter president and CEO. "This five-year contract will allow us to plan much further out as we order long-lead materials, invest for capacity growth, increase our production rate, and deliver these unique aircraft on time to a war-fighting customer who really needs them."
The contract calls for 141 MV-22 aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and 26 CV-22 aircraft for the Air Force Special Operations Command. To date, the Bell Boeing alliance has delivered a total of 100 V-22 aircraft to the U.S. military. The Marines currently have 12 MV-22s deployed in combat at Al Asad Air Base in Iraq.
The world's first production tiltrotor, the V-22 combines the vertical performance of a helicopter with the high speed and range of a fixed wing aircraft. The V-22 offers twice the speed, three times the payload, five times the range of the older aircraft it will replace.
Bell Helicopter is an industry-leading producer of commercial and military, manned and unmanned vertical lift aircraft and the pioneer of the revolutionary tilt rotor aircraft. Globally recognized for world-class customer service, innovation and superior quality, Bell's global workforce serves customers flying Bell aircraft in more than 120 countries.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Who pilots this wonderful machine? Is it rotary bloke with some fixed wing experience or a fixed wing bloke with some rotary training???
Maybe one of each for each phase of flight???
Maybe one of each for each phase of flight???
$10.4bn for 167 V-22s: $62mn each.
Twice the price of a wokka for less than half the payload (pax or USL).
That's a BIG premium to be paying for speed, surely?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two and two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. (1984)
But there's lots of money and lots of senior reputations riding on the V-22, to shut up and quit mentioning the obvious. WHY DO YOU HATE OUR HEROIC MARINES, YOU
?
Twice the price of a wokka for less than half the payload (pax or USL).
That's a BIG premium to be paying for speed, surely?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two and two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. (1984)
But there's lots of money and lots of senior reputations riding on the V-22, to shut up and quit mentioning the obvious. WHY DO YOU HATE OUR HEROIC MARINES, YOU
?
Tourist,
The extra speed will only help if the single load is within the V-22 limit. Think Viking, or CVRT..the V-22 will never lift those in a combat configured state.
However, the USMC happily realise this and are buying the Ch-53K to do the heavy stuff. We must stop comparing the V-22 to the Chinook, it's just as unfair a comparison as Merlin / Chinook (except that V-22 is better than Chinook in a couple of areas.....), compare V-22 to the Phrog and you have a quantum change in capability - speed, range (for proper SToM) and survivability (above the SA/MANPAD environment).
Now, lets let the US iron out the creases and when the unit price drops buy a shed load!! Oh sorry, it might look a bit like a FW but it's still a RW so we'll just buy loads of 9g planks instead.......
The extra speed will only help if the single load is within the V-22 limit. Think Viking, or CVRT..the V-22 will never lift those in a combat configured state.
However, the USMC happily realise this and are buying the Ch-53K to do the heavy stuff. We must stop comparing the V-22 to the Chinook, it's just as unfair a comparison as Merlin / Chinook (except that V-22 is better than Chinook in a couple of areas.....), compare V-22 to the Phrog and you have a quantum change in capability - speed, range (for proper SToM) and survivability (above the SA/MANPAD environment).
Now, lets let the US iron out the creases and when the unit price drops buy a shed load!! Oh sorry, it might look a bit like a FW but it's still a RW so we'll just buy loads of 9g planks instead.......
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Folks really must quit thinking of the V22 as some sort of helo replacement.
It is neither fixed wing, nor rotary - it is what it is. It brings it's own set of capabilities and limitations and is a compromise just as every other aircraft...
It is neither fixed wing, nor rotary - it is what it is. It brings it's own set of capabilities and limitations and is a compromise just as every other aircraft...
Join Date: Jul 2004
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This does look like the solution has become too "old" in development. Why not look at how big an Aircraft with two Pegasus engines you could build?? Surely you would get double the speed and increased payload?
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Any thoughts out there on whether the Osprey concept (2 tilting rotors) is better or worse than the Fairey Rotodyne one (single jet-powered rotor and 2 engines for forward thrust).
Thanks, ORAC...
I was going to respond with the H2G2 line - "They don't have sarcasm on Betelgeuse, and Ford Prefect often failed to notice it unless he was concentrating."
One problem is that the Marines have limited use for high speed. It's only worth the candle if the mission is V-22 alone, because otherwise your escorts and heavy equipment are going at helo speed. That's why special ops - where your limitation is often how far you can get in the hours of darkness, which are determined by Kepler - is an ideal world for the V-22.
I was going to respond with the H2G2 line - "They don't have sarcasm on Betelgeuse, and Ford Prefect often failed to notice it unless he was concentrating."
One problem is that the Marines have limited use for high speed. It's only worth the candle if the mission is V-22 alone, because otherwise your escorts and heavy equipment are going at helo speed. That's why special ops - where your limitation is often how far you can get in the hours of darkness, which are determined by Kepler - is an ideal world for the V-22.
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This does look like the solution has become too "old" in development. Why not look at how big an Aircraft with two Pegasus engines you could build?? Surely you would get double the speed and increased payload?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_31
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AdLib:
Fair point: US units (pax and $) throughout, for consistency. Last batch of new-build CH-47s for the US Army were around $34mn IIRC.
I would love to think that we could pay $62mn for our V-22s, but somehow I doubt it. We almost always seem to end up paying the dollar price in pounds.
As for BSP, my concern is the lack of internal volume of V-22 relative to a wokka (BSW or US), especially given the sheer bulk of fully-laden pax on ops.
Anyway, not my money; I wish the Marines well with it (but if it WAS my money, it would still seem a big premium for speed vs. lift).
Fair point: US units (pax and $) throughout, for consistency. Last batch of new-build CH-47s for the US Army were around $34mn IIRC.
I would love to think that we could pay $62mn for our V-22s, but somehow I doubt it. We almost always seem to end up paying the dollar price in pounds.
As for BSP, my concern is the lack of internal volume of V-22 relative to a wokka (BSW or US), especially given the sheer bulk of fully-laden pax on ops.
Anyway, not my money; I wish the Marines well with it (but if it WAS my money, it would still seem a big premium for speed vs. lift).
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Yes, Osprey is more expensive than Chinook (and unit cost+RAF support vs unit cost+PBL vs lease+little gnomes is a whole other can of financial ZZzzzzz - won't go there).
But Osprey is not a Chinook replacement; it's strengths are speed and range (and it does have a decent payload too). Apply that to (e.g.) MEDEVAC/CASEVAC or CSAR and you have a powerful argument for the platform.
But Osprey is not a Chinook replacement; it's strengths are speed and range (and it does have a decent payload too). Apply that to (e.g.) MEDEVAC/CASEVAC or CSAR and you have a powerful argument for the platform.