WSOp Streaming
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The way they choose is:
The person with the highest academic score gets what he (or she...) wanted
The person with the highest academic score gets what he (or she...) wanted
The 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc go AEOp.
The rest go Loadie.
The rest go Loadie.
Fly-Friendly
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Excuse me if I'm wrong but the new course at 55 Sqn was designed by an AEOp who then got promoted into a job where he approved his own course design!!! The purpose of which was to get more people to Kinloss. After one of the Nimrod Squadrons was chopped that is maybe not the case... but if the shoe fits
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Maybe an AEOp designed the new course because Loadies can't write?
Is this where I get proved wrong again? Expecting incoming
P.S. I agree that the course was redesigned to make it easier to send people to Kinloss, still I have heard good things about the the new structure.
Is this where I get proved wrong again? Expecting incoming
P.S. I agree that the course was redesigned to make it easier to send people to Kinloss, still I have heard good things about the the new structure.
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Having recently gone through the new Generic course I disagree that it's geared towards WSOp (EW / Aco) - which I am! - but gives a better overall grounding to allow you to move between specializations later in you career (said expecting incoming). It's either the generic course or longer OCUs and less ease of changing later in life. Thoughts please?
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Right sorry gotta bite.
The new course makes it easier for NCA to move around between specializations does it? Who exactly? Ah yes our AEOp chums. I believe no rotary mate cross trained yet to AEOp but not sure if any would. Why does it mean longer OCU's exactly? The new course has just delayed people who are streamed rotary actually getting to the squadrons.
I agree the course seems to cover a wide range of topics producing a well rounded trainee. However I think the extra cost in training should have been given to OCF's to produce a more rounded character specific to the aircraft they are going to be working on!
The new course makes it easier for NCA to move around between specializations does it? Who exactly? Ah yes our AEOp chums. I believe no rotary mate cross trained yet to AEOp but not sure if any would. Why does it mean longer OCU's exactly? The new course has just delayed people who are streamed rotary actually getting to the squadrons.
I agree the course seems to cover a wide range of topics producing a well rounded trainee. However I think the extra cost in training should have been given to OCF's to produce a more rounded character specific to the aircraft they are going to be working on!
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Supposedly yes, it does make it easier to move around between specializations. Why would an WSOp (EW / Aco) want to go and become a loadie...boring...bad knees...bad back...dare I go on?? The fact that no-one has yet changed comes down more to manning (or the lack thereof) I would guess as to move out someone needs to move in and replace you. It has prolonged the initial training but should you go around again later in life you would only do the specialist phase I would imagine. And cost wise, either do the generic stuff (met, tech etc etc) in 3 locations with 3 sets of overheads or in a single location, which makes sense as being cheaper. And with regards rotary boys, surely the holds prior to Shawbury are more of a delay?
It's a funny old world. NCA, or airman aircrew in old money, used to be viewed as a heirarchy. Different course, different entry criteria, and different pay.
No-one would be an ALM if they could be an eng, and all the siggies were volunteers for the role- no question. (This might be where the old loadies with a-levels do the "I only ever wanted to be a loadie" line.)
Now everyone seems to want to be a crewman.
Go figure.
The way you're all treated these days, I'd be ok with a stude who withdrew at the end of the generic course, if the destination didn't suit. Training cost would be peanuts in the great scheme.
CG
No-one would be an ALM if they could be an eng, and all the siggies were volunteers for the role- no question. (This might be where the old loadies with a-levels do the "I only ever wanted to be a loadie" line.)
Now everyone seems to want to be a crewman.
Go figure.
The way you're all treated these days, I'd be ok with a stude who withdrew at the end of the generic course, if the destination didn't suit. Training cost would be peanuts in the great scheme.
CG
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Easy Tiger,
Also just an observation
Letsgoandfly,
That's because you are an AEOp and are probably using things taught at 55 right now as you go through your wet/dry trg (or OCU). Speaking from a loadies point of view, very little of what was learned during those six months has been relevant at this point in time. Having completed the rotary loadie cse (a further year after 55), most of what was said by the staff has been forgotten.
R21,
I couldn't agree more.
Jizman
Definately the way forward.
ThePhoenix
The 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc go AEOp.
The rest go Loadie.
The rest go Loadie.
Having recently gone through the new Generic course I disagree that it's geared towards WSOp (EW / Aco)
That's because you are an AEOp and are probably using things taught at 55 right now as you go through your wet/dry trg (or OCU). Speaking from a loadies point of view, very little of what was learned during those six months has been relevant at this point in time. Having completed the rotary loadie cse (a further year after 55), most of what was said by the staff has been forgotten.
R21,
The new course has just delayed people who are streamed rotary actually getting to the squadrons.
Jizman
Definately the way forward.
ThePhoenix
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Back in the day I wanted Air Eng first then Loadie, there was no way I wanted to sit in the Vomit Comet in the dark staring at a green screen....
We had the learn lots, take exams, then forget what you've been taught scenario in Loadie Groundschool.
You spent weeks working out the way to indiviually tie down the 58 variants of Landrover in Nato during the foundation course, and take 14 exams in it (and in-flight catering), and on the first day of Rotary streaming, it is "forget all that , you touch down, they drive in, you through a couple of P strops over, and you get outta there"
We had the learn lots, take exams, then forget what you've been taught scenario in Loadie Groundschool.
You spent weeks working out the way to indiviually tie down the 58 variants of Landrover in Nato during the foundation course, and take 14 exams in it (and in-flight catering), and on the first day of Rotary streaming, it is "forget all that , you touch down, they drive in, you through a couple of P strops over, and you get outta there"
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The fact that no-one has yet changed comes down more to manning (or the lack thereof)
Sorry to conterdict you but there's been 6 AEOps crossed over and passed(or soon to pass) the Shawbury course. I,ve not heard of any more coming this way and I,ve yet to hear of any loadies going the other way. Maybe it's due to location rather than job but I think the vast majority of ALM's could be re-trained to be AEOp's if they wish.
PS I am an AEOP I just can't spell that good!!
Sorry to conterdict you but there's been 6 AEOps crossed over and passed(or soon to pass) the Shawbury course. I,ve not heard of any more coming this way and I,ve yet to hear of any loadies going the other way. Maybe it's due to location rather than job but I think the vast majority of ALM's could be re-trained to be AEOp's if they wish.
PS I am an AEOP I just can't spell that good!!
Last edited by rockiesqiud; 12th Apr 2007 at 12:05. Reason: wrong spelling
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Fitting a Sliding door on the side, or a Ramp on the back of the Nimrod would probably make it alot more attractive to Loadies, it's nice to get a bit of fresh air while you're flying
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Quite frankly there is a lot of sh**e being spouted by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Phoenix, the generic phase has cock all to do with being an AEOp, its generic and contains no more AEOp specific training than LM!
Tiger mate speaks an awful lot of sense and has quoted actual figures.
Of those 6 who were streamed AEOp 4 wanted to be AEOp and one didn't mind, only one really didn't get what he wanted.
No rotary loadie has crossed over 'cos the Air Farce is a bit short right now.
As previously stated the vast majority of studes get what they want!
And by the way there was also a loadie on the team that developed the course.
Personally I think studes should be streamed by the OASC and instead of wasting 6 mths teaching them generic skills teach them trade specific....or is that reinventing the wheel.
Phoenix, the generic phase has cock all to do with being an AEOp, its generic and contains no more AEOp specific training than LM!
Tiger mate speaks an awful lot of sense and has quoted actual figures.
Of those 6 who were streamed AEOp 4 wanted to be AEOp and one didn't mind, only one really didn't get what he wanted.
No rotary loadie has crossed over 'cos the Air Farce is a bit short right now.
As previously stated the vast majority of studes get what they want!
And by the way there was also a loadie on the team that developed the course.
Personally I think studes should be streamed by the OASC and instead of wasting 6 mths teaching them generic skills teach them trade specific....or is that reinventing the wheel.
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Yes you are wrong! The Generic course was infact designed as a direct result from the findings of the AASS and then approved by TGDA, Innsworth. The team had a loadie on it as well, so no bias was applied, so back in your box R 21. (Is that your age by the way?)
The course content was agreed after extensive consultation with all specialisations and that's why there's no spec phase for rotary studes on 55 Sqn anymore. The bottleneck is with Shawbury who are stuck with piggybacking loadies onto a contracted course for pilots, which isn't very efficent for getting guys through, but produces a high quality product who is ready to then go through a demanding OCU.
The divide between loadies and AEOps will always exist no matter what, but naive remarks only do damage to those who still wish to become NCA, no matter what specialization they may end up as, think on.....
The course content was agreed after extensive consultation with all specialisations and that's why there's no spec phase for rotary studes on 55 Sqn anymore. The bottleneck is with Shawbury who are stuck with piggybacking loadies onto a contracted course for pilots, which isn't very efficent for getting guys through, but produces a high quality product who is ready to then go through a demanding OCU.
The divide between loadies and AEOps will always exist no matter what, but naive remarks only do damage to those who still wish to become NCA, no matter what specialization they may end up as, think on.....
Last edited by manualtilt; 16th Apr 2007 at 18:03.
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the generic phase has cock all to do with being an AEOp, its generic and contains no more AEOp specific training than LM!
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Ive seen some crap posted on PPRUNE but this thread is full of it. If you choose to join as NCA then you are streamed post the generic course. The streaming process is based on many factors that stem all the way from basic training at RTS for those recently from Halton, to how one has performed on 55 Sqn and OACTU and obviously what PMA 55 needs to fill at the sharp end. At the end of the day , piss people off at Cranwell and you'll not get what you want, (there are plenty have done this!!) cos you probably aren/t good enough for it!! Keep your nose ,clean work hard, play hard !but most of all be professional and always strive for excellence. Good luck , remember about 1 out of the 10 who ever think of NCA make it to a SQN.
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OK, my turn to take the bait
It has bugger all to do with being a linguist but they still have to sit through being taught by AEOps. (samuraimatt)
It has nothing to do with the fact they are AEOps, it is all about teaching 'generic' airmanship subjects that ALL NCA aircrew have to learn. Yes, they also teach/lecture on some of the specialisations, such as acoustics and non-acoustics, but this is purely to give all students a flavour of the various specialisations prior to making a desision on streaming.
For those of you bleating on this thread that went through before the introduction of the Generic 'Airmanship' phase, then you are not really informed enough to comment, unless you are instructing on 55(R) Sqn or subsequent OCUs (although I do admit you are entitled to your own opinions, even if they are ill-informed.) For the 'whingers' on this thread that have been lucky/unlucky enough (depending on how you found the experience) to have gone through the new training programme, then you are new to the RAF NCA cadre and really shouldn't be commenting on how your own training should have been performed. Only until you have had at least had a few years front-line experience and maybe even some exposure as an instructor yourself, then you will be informed enough to understand whether you believe that the NCA training system is flawed or not.
Regards M7