UAV operators now can get aviation awards
UAV operators now can get aviation awards
From the (US) Army Times.
Soldiers who operate unmanned aerial vehicles now are eligible for award of the Aviation Badge, Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal.
The Distinguished Flying Cross is a prestigious decoration that ranks just behind the Silver Star as a valor medal. It is awarded for heroism or extraordinary achievement.
The Air Medal is awarded for heroism, outstanding achievement or meritorious service. It ranks behind the Bronze Star, but in front of the Army Commendation Medal.
The Air Medal is awarded for heroism, outstanding achievement or meritorious service. It ranks behind the Bronze Star, but in front of the Army Commendation Medal.
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Guys, I would not be too worried about medals being dished out just for being able to breath. The majority of the time, our American friends hand them out in mass because they love to look like they've been the ones that have done all the work! Of course there are many that deserve the recognition.
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/display/usa.htm
and that's just scratching the surface...
If you're UK military and have shiny clinky things on your No1's then just know that you've deserved them. But please.....don't get wound up about those over the pond, you know what they're like.
FbS
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/display/usa.htm
and that's just scratching the surface...
If you're UK military and have shiny clinky things on your No1's then just know that you've deserved them. But please.....don't get wound up about those over the pond, you know what they're like.
FbS
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DFC Awards for UAV Operators
While I tend to agree that the threat to Life and Limb is reduced by UAV operators not being in the cockpit, their job is to protect their ship, and possible the lives they are assigned to monitor. Show me a UAV pilot that uses a Hellfire to take out an enemy position to save some friendlies, then I think he deserves some recognition.
Not being a combat pilot, I will never know that fear or the courage that it takes to enter into enemy territory, being shot at with FLAK, or AAA, in order to take out objectives that could possibly save lives. On the other hand, if, as a UAV operator (Which I Am Not) could accomplish the same thing thousands of miles away, should there be some feeling of accomplishment? There is skill involved on both fronts.
Most people feel that pilots are larger than life people, Captain of the Team, Great Athletes, who have taken years to hone the skills necessary to fly on the edge, to take risks, and get rewards. I guess people would feel cheated to reward some Cheeto's eating Video freak fat guy, who happens to be really good at piloting (if we can use that word) a UAV half way around the world. If he does do something "Accidently" heroic, and prevents loss of life, we would feel cheated that he would receive a medal?
They say the new "XBOX" generation, the people how have grown up playing video games may make better UAV pilots, since they have already grown up having that "Suspension of Belief" drilled into their psyches. Can we call them heroes? Only if they go above and beyond the call to duty. Does that mean that they can only be rewarded if they themselves are in harms way?
Not being a combat pilot, I will never know that fear or the courage that it takes to enter into enemy territory, being shot at with FLAK, or AAA, in order to take out objectives that could possibly save lives. On the other hand, if, as a UAV operator (Which I Am Not) could accomplish the same thing thousands of miles away, should there be some feeling of accomplishment? There is skill involved on both fronts.
Most people feel that pilots are larger than life people, Captain of the Team, Great Athletes, who have taken years to hone the skills necessary to fly on the edge, to take risks, and get rewards. I guess people would feel cheated to reward some Cheeto's eating Video freak fat guy, who happens to be really good at piloting (if we can use that word) a UAV half way around the world. If he does do something "Accidently" heroic, and prevents loss of life, we would feel cheated that he would receive a medal?
They say the new "XBOX" generation, the people how have grown up playing video games may make better UAV pilots, since they have already grown up having that "Suspension of Belief" drilled into their psyches. Can we call them heroes? Only if they go above and beyond the call to duty. Does that mean that they can only be rewarded if they themselves are in harms way?
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I worked with Predator operators on the ground in the western Iraqi desert. I really think you shouldn't belittle their operations without the full picture. Just my opinion.
Originally Posted by TheComputerDood
Show me a UAV pilot that uses a Hellfire to take out an enemy position to save some friendlies, then I think he deserves some recognition.
After all, he is an important link in the chain.
Then: What medal will his wife get for feeding him and keeping him fit?
And what medal his mommy & daddy get for creating him?
as Gainsey said "How pathetic can you get?
"
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Recognition... YES
Awards for actions performed... YES
The same medal that has always been given out for deeds performed at risk of one's own life and limb... HE]] NO!!!
Sgt, USMC 1981-1989
Awards for actions performed... YES
The same medal that has always been given out for deeds performed at risk of one's own life and limb... HE]] NO!!!
Sgt, USMC 1981-1989
"The US Army Warrier and UK Watchkeeper will be flown by artillery gunners..."
Not in UK airspace they won't - at least, not outside active Danger Areas.
Not only are these things to be operated by pilots, but those pilots will also need appropriate instrument flying qualifications in the future if the UAV world expands.
A few years ago some grunt-operated UAV nearly took out an airliner inbound to Basra or Baghdad or somewhere similar - the army had no idea about airspace coordination restrictions.
Whilst UAVs have their place, I do get the feeling that their proponents are pushing their ideas forward with indecent haste and inadequate consultation.
Not in UK airspace they won't - at least, not outside active Danger Areas.
Not only are these things to be operated by pilots, but those pilots will also need appropriate instrument flying qualifications in the future if the UAV world expands.
A few years ago some grunt-operated UAV nearly took out an airliner inbound to Basra or Baghdad or somewhere similar - the army had no idea about airspace coordination restrictions.
Whilst UAVs have their place, I do get the feeling that their proponents are pushing their ideas forward with indecent haste and inadequate consultation.
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"So what medal will the guy who sweeps the floor at the electricity generating station, that provides the power to enable the chimp to fly a UAV and release a missile to take out a few enemy and save a few friendlies get?.
After all, he is an important link in the chain."
"The guy who sweeps the floor" is as vital a link in the chain that gets a manned aircraft into a position to carry out a heroic act as he is getting a UAV there. However, he isn't the one who should be decorated anymore than the pilots' parents should be.
With the increase in technology aircrew are continuing to become more remote from the action on the ground. There is relatively little skill or courage required to guide an LGB from a level release in typical desert conditions let alone program an EPWII to strike a target through cloud. With the introduction of PWIV in a few years time the necessity to get up close and personal will be virtually removed from the ground attack role and the only time you will see the whites of the enemies eyes is through your next generation targeting pod (certainly not TIALD) or when you unload the gun in a dive. In the not too distant future will we see an end to acts worthy of recognition? I think not!
The mortal peril to aircrew will remain, manned flight will forever be a risky venture and the SAM threat will always be there. However, in the future combat arena these risk will be reduced as low as practically possible through the use of Stealth technologies, Stand-off weapons and UAVs to neutralise an IADS and provide localised air superiority. As the threat to aircrew is reduced/negated there will still remain a need to get stores on target in a timely fashion at the behest of the ground commander. Perhaps it is this that should be recognised. When pinned down I'm sure your average soldier doesn’t care whether the ordnance is delivered from a UAV or a manned aircraft, all he cares about is that it gets there as quickly as possible.
On current rostering Predator aircrew are involved on operations 6 days out of 9 spending longer on station than any current RAF fixed wing asset (hats off to the SH Force who work harder than the rest of us put together). With the imminent arrival of MQ-9 “Reaper” into service there will be 24hour+ persistence with as varied a payload as the GR7/9 carries and the best integrated targeting/reconnaissance system the RAF possesses. It may not do a fantastic rolling display at airshows or be able to fly backwards but if you want an asset to support the troops on the ground in our current theatres of operations then the MQ1/9 is a pretty good choice.
The DFC is awarded for “an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy". Currently a UAV can no more operate or deliver ordnance without a crew than a manned aircraft can. The operators on the ground are as intimately involved in “flying” as airborne aircrew are and should receive recognition in just the same manner. That is why aircrew at Nellis still wear their brevets and flying suits and receive their retention bonuses. Just because the control station is an air-conditioned iso-container thousands of miles away doesn’t mean that the aircrew aren’t 100% mission orientated, working 100% of the time for the guys on the ground and will pull out all the stops to make sure the troops survive their tour of duty. And finally, for 4 months of the year the aircrew are sitting on Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban so you can’t say they aren’t devoted to their duty.
Should UAV aircrew be eligible for aviation medals, undoubtedly.
After all, he is an important link in the chain."
"The guy who sweeps the floor" is as vital a link in the chain that gets a manned aircraft into a position to carry out a heroic act as he is getting a UAV there. However, he isn't the one who should be decorated anymore than the pilots' parents should be.
With the increase in technology aircrew are continuing to become more remote from the action on the ground. There is relatively little skill or courage required to guide an LGB from a level release in typical desert conditions let alone program an EPWII to strike a target through cloud. With the introduction of PWIV in a few years time the necessity to get up close and personal will be virtually removed from the ground attack role and the only time you will see the whites of the enemies eyes is through your next generation targeting pod (certainly not TIALD) or when you unload the gun in a dive. In the not too distant future will we see an end to acts worthy of recognition? I think not!
The mortal peril to aircrew will remain, manned flight will forever be a risky venture and the SAM threat will always be there. However, in the future combat arena these risk will be reduced as low as practically possible through the use of Stealth technologies, Stand-off weapons and UAVs to neutralise an IADS and provide localised air superiority. As the threat to aircrew is reduced/negated there will still remain a need to get stores on target in a timely fashion at the behest of the ground commander. Perhaps it is this that should be recognised. When pinned down I'm sure your average soldier doesn’t care whether the ordnance is delivered from a UAV or a manned aircraft, all he cares about is that it gets there as quickly as possible.
On current rostering Predator aircrew are involved on operations 6 days out of 9 spending longer on station than any current RAF fixed wing asset (hats off to the SH Force who work harder than the rest of us put together). With the imminent arrival of MQ-9 “Reaper” into service there will be 24hour+ persistence with as varied a payload as the GR7/9 carries and the best integrated targeting/reconnaissance system the RAF possesses. It may not do a fantastic rolling display at airshows or be able to fly backwards but if you want an asset to support the troops on the ground in our current theatres of operations then the MQ1/9 is a pretty good choice.
The DFC is awarded for “an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy". Currently a UAV can no more operate or deliver ordnance without a crew than a manned aircraft can. The operators on the ground are as intimately involved in “flying” as airborne aircrew are and should receive recognition in just the same manner. That is why aircrew at Nellis still wear their brevets and flying suits and receive their retention bonuses. Just because the control station is an air-conditioned iso-container thousands of miles away doesn’t mean that the aircrew aren’t 100% mission orientated, working 100% of the time for the guys on the ground and will pull out all the stops to make sure the troops survive their tour of duty. And finally, for 4 months of the year the aircrew are sitting on Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban so you can’t say they aren’t devoted to their duty.
Should UAV aircrew be eligible for aviation medals, undoubtedly.
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The Flying Bravery Medal is hereby awarded to Maj B Rave for action against the enemy.
Whilst literally only 11,000 miles from enemy territory he sat fast as several angry text messages from insurgents were sent to his mobile phone. In the heat of battle, as his right arm reached out to press the weapon release switch, his cup of coffee was dislodged and spilt down his right upper thigh. Without regard for the ragingly mild discomfort of the hot fluid, he wiped the sweat from his brow (it should be noted that he was operating WITHOUT proper air conditioning in that the thermostat was stuck at 27 deg C) and reached for the weapon release switch, successfully depressing it.
The weapons release switch, which functioned perfectly during the battle, was designed and built by Lt S Witch. Lt Witch, for his part in this encounter, is hereby awarded the Pilot-Machine Interface Medal. Lt Witch was on holiday in Sri Lanka during the engagement, but will be returning to collect his medal later this month.
Whilst literally only 11,000 miles from enemy territory he sat fast as several angry text messages from insurgents were sent to his mobile phone. In the heat of battle, as his right arm reached out to press the weapon release switch, his cup of coffee was dislodged and spilt down his right upper thigh. Without regard for the ragingly mild discomfort of the hot fluid, he wiped the sweat from his brow (it should be noted that he was operating WITHOUT proper air conditioning in that the thermostat was stuck at 27 deg C) and reached for the weapon release switch, successfully depressing it.
The weapons release switch, which functioned perfectly during the battle, was designed and built by Lt S Witch. Lt Witch, for his part in this encounter, is hereby awarded the Pilot-Machine Interface Medal. Lt Witch was on holiday in Sri Lanka during the engagement, but will be returning to collect his medal later this month.
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JustT, I guess from your location you are on a UK UAV posting, reading your post I'd guess you have sunstroke. UK MQ-9 armed? Will 2 of them give 24hr+ endurance on task (inc. transit and serviceability)?
So are you saying UAV aircrew sitting in Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban are exposed to higher risk than anyone else inside the wire? If so I doubt you have been on the ground in either theatre, granted getting mortared is no fun but compared to the guys and gals stepping outside the wire, now they deserve extra recognition! Rostered 6 days out of 9, what do you do after your shift? That's better than my UK shift pattern, in theatre it's 12 on, 12 off for many people.
You seem to be suggesting that UAV operators should get extra recognition for endurance and remotely getting weapons on target, isn't that the job?
The US have lost over 40 preds (I think), some in "combat". I'm guessing none of the operators were injured, because that is the major point of UAVs to remove the risk to the crew!
So what happens when UAVs become autonomous, will the computer get the medals or the programmer?
Just checked my dictionary -
VALOUR; Strength of mind or sprit that enables somebody to encounter danger with firmness; personal bravery
DANGER; Exposure to the possibility of injury, pain or loss
If you want lots of shiny stars try McDonalds. (I hear they are recruiting FJ Navs)
So are you saying UAV aircrew sitting in Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban are exposed to higher risk than anyone else inside the wire? If so I doubt you have been on the ground in either theatre, granted getting mortared is no fun but compared to the guys and gals stepping outside the wire, now they deserve extra recognition! Rostered 6 days out of 9, what do you do after your shift? That's better than my UK shift pattern, in theatre it's 12 on, 12 off for many people.
You seem to be suggesting that UAV operators should get extra recognition for endurance and remotely getting weapons on target, isn't that the job?
The US have lost over 40 preds (I think), some in "combat". I'm guessing none of the operators were injured, because that is the major point of UAVs to remove the risk to the crew!
So what happens when UAVs become autonomous, will the computer get the medals or the programmer?
Just checked my dictionary -
VALOUR; Strength of mind or sprit that enables somebody to encounter danger with firmness; personal bravery
DANGER; Exposure to the possibility of injury, pain or loss
If you want lots of shiny stars try McDonalds.
(I hear they are recruiting FJ Navs)
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Thunderturkeys 2020
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It's like the difference between being in the Sim at night with one engine out, 200' cloud break, 2 miles viz in a monsoon, and doing the same thing for real -only one of those conditions makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and your nuts to go somewhere up around your adam's apple. It's all about the physiological sensations of personal and imminent danger, something a UAV Operator will never experience flying a drone, however skilled they are.