Joining RAF at 37
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Cloud Chaser,
FTRS = FULL TIME reserve service. What you want is part time or you wouldn't be able to do a 'day job' as well. There used to be an Aux aircrew scheme, but I'm not sure that it's still going. Anyone else know?
FTRS = FULL TIME reserve service. What you want is part time or you wouldn't be able to do a 'day job' as well. There used to be an Aux aircrew scheme, but I'm not sure that it's still going. Anyone else know?
Join Date: Oct 2001
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But where do the Forces stand regarding the anti-ageism legislation that has been introduced? After all, we don't have a H&SAW Act waiver.
Why shouldn't some dude with a proven record flying ME be given a job in the RAF?
Why shouldn't some dude with a proven record flying ME be given a job in the RAF?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Are there any exceptions?
There are a handful of groups that are not covered by the legislation. For example, members of the regular armed forces or military reserve forces are not included as age is seen as an acceptable way to decide a person's suitability to the field of combat.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story...ticle_continue
I believe that answers the question.
There are a handful of groups that are not covered by the legislation. For example, members of the regular armed forces or military reserve forces are not included as age is seen as an acceptable way to decide a person's suitability to the field of combat.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story...ticle_continue
I believe that answers the question.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Joiun at 37?
You're too old. Don't think about it. I retired at 46 after 30 years service. I don't know what it's like now, but in my day you were too old.
Bob C
Bob C
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Bob C, we had a Doc, burning ambition and all that. Joined in his late 30s, got in as a wg cdr (or shortly after).
Apart from the usual G complex he was far too old. Physically infirm from too much civilian surgery practise and no example whatever.
Yes, IMHO even joining at 23 is pushing it.
Can you imagine the modern advert similar to one run in the 60s?
23, you could be a Typhoon leader heading a 4-ship or a mission to Londistan to intercept a giant Airbus with 800 screaming passengers on board. If you think you can do this rather than be tied to the kitchen sink while your husband is out at work, join the Royal Air Force.
Flies Monday to Thursday from 9 to 4 and lunchtimes on Fridays, other times on request.
Apart from the usual G complex he was far too old. Physically infirm from too much civilian surgery practise and no example whatever.
Yes, IMHO even joining at 23 is pushing it.
Can you imagine the modern advert similar to one run in the 60s?
23, you could be a Typhoon leader heading a 4-ship or a mission to Londistan to intercept a giant Airbus with 800 screaming passengers on board. If you think you can do this rather than be tied to the kitchen sink while your husband is out at work, join the Royal Air Force.
Flies Monday to Thursday from 9 to 4 and lunchtimes on Fridays, other times on request.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Yes, IMHO even joining at 23 is pushing it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
saudipc, wow, you started training as a pilot at age 40? My hat off to you.
It was the thought of running around with pine poles that would put me off at that age.
It was the thought of running around with pine poles that would put me off at that age.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Nah I started at 25, but my point is that 23 is a farce. If we are talking "g" then there is no issue. We have plenty of shall we say more "life experienced" folks coming through Moose Jaw for training. Age is not really a factor at all with the exception being that older students have more life issues to deal with family etc...
Fortunately, pine poles do not fit in a cockpit very
well
Fortunately, pine poles do not fit in a cockpit very
well
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
saudi pc 9, I was winding you up.
I don't know the real reason why the latest age to start training in the RAF is 24 but I have an idea.
1. The success rate for pilot trainees falls well short of 100%. Experience has probably shown that the success rate drops significantly with increasing age over 23. That would be one reason for setting 23 as the entry limit.
2. Then there are something like 10 applicants for each slot. In other words demand exceeds supply so we do not need to consider 'higher' risk candidates.
3. What of 'special' cases? Same answer really, we have sufficient 'normal' demand and do not need the additional staff work involved in considering special cases, ie Condition 2. Weak answer I know and there is an entry stream for re-entrants and older candidates with special qualifications so really Condition 1 applies for pilots.
I don't know the real reason why the latest age to start training in the RAF is 24 but I have an idea.
1. The success rate for pilot trainees falls well short of 100%. Experience has probably shown that the success rate drops significantly with increasing age over 23. That would be one reason for setting 23 as the entry limit.
2. Then there are something like 10 applicants for each slot. In other words demand exceeds supply so we do not need to consider 'higher' risk candidates.
3. What of 'special' cases? Same answer really, we have sufficient 'normal' demand and do not need the additional staff work involved in considering special cases, ie Condition 2. Weak answer I know and there is an entry stream for re-entrants and older candidates with special qualifications so really Condition 1 applies for pilots.
Thorpey,
Interesting plan of yours, and best of luck if you give it a go. One thing that springs to mind though is that rearcrew jobs in rotary (and I daresay ME, though I don't know first-hand) are very physically strenuous, and a 20-something is better able to cope than a 40-something. Bear in mind that the RAF likes to sign on aircrew for a reasonably long engagement, to recoup the training costs, meaning that you might end up doing the job in your 50s. But don't let me put you off trying!
TOTD
Interesting plan of yours, and best of luck if you give it a go. One thing that springs to mind though is that rearcrew jobs in rotary (and I daresay ME, though I don't know first-hand) are very physically strenuous, and a 20-something is better able to cope than a 40-something. Bear in mind that the RAF likes to sign on aircrew for a reasonably long engagement, to recoup the training costs, meaning that you might end up doing the job in your 50s. But don't let me put you off trying!
TOTD
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Yeah, carrying a full tray of tea over the spars in a Shack at 40 was bloody fatiguee, especially on a 10 hour plus flight and slaving over a hot stove in the galley.
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I started my pilot training at 32, winged at 34 and did OK thanks. And I wasn't the oldest on my course...
I was told I was too old at 26/27 though...
They won't take you over the age limit unless they have a specific need - and you're in the right place at the right time. I think you'll be wasting your time even walking into the AFCO.
But you might get a job as RAFP...
I was told I was too old at 26/27 though...
They won't take you over the age limit unless they have a specific need - and you're in the right place at the right time. I think you'll be wasting your time even walking into the AFCO.
But you might get a job as RAFP...
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Pontious,
You remind me of the staff that British Airways post as keepers of the gates at the airport lounges all itching to get the satisfaction of saying no
In the early eighties I did a TA direct entry officer course which consisted two weeks basic, two weekends a month for six months, a two week battle camp in Otterburn and two weeks at Victory College, Sandhurst (all while doing a normal day job)
A couple of years later, I did IOT 85, started off in the first phase by going out on the lash in Sleaford almost every night
I can confirm that even a TA infantry officers basic training is significantly more arduous than dicking around Thetford forest with a couple of anaemic pine poles. On my flight we had a transitioning to RAF Officer from Army WO helo pilot in his late thirties with buckets more hands on leadership skills than most of the Cranwell Flight Commanders. He walked everything half asleep, but was forced to stoically endure R squadron because the staff "didn't like his attitude", or maybe they didn't like the fact that he was entitled to wear RAF wings on his cadet uniform, and in most cases the educators, stackers and techies filling many of the Flight Commander slots, with a lot of experience leading the way to NAAFI tea break didn't have them at all
In any case as our Canadian friend has expressed, you don't get many pine poles in a cockpit.
What if a number of civilian multi engine airline pilots, want to enter as specialist aircrew, to fly C130, Nimrod, Helo etc, leaving the young hot shots to tear around in the high G environment. With minimal transition, focusing on tactical flying skills, shoudn't this be of tremedous help to the RAF and the country, if the rumours of mass departures from the RAF in this forum are to be believed.
There is no doubt in my mind that we may be facing the biggest conflagration since the second world war, and like that one, it is creeping up on us, with the audience screaming "look out behind you !!!!!!"
A bit of lateral thinking about how to keep our armed forces in business in difficult time, might well be a damned good thing.
You remind me of the staff that British Airways post as keepers of the gates at the airport lounges all itching to get the satisfaction of saying no
In the early eighties I did a TA direct entry officer course which consisted two weeks basic, two weekends a month for six months, a two week battle camp in Otterburn and two weeks at Victory College, Sandhurst (all while doing a normal day job)
A couple of years later, I did IOT 85, started off in the first phase by going out on the lash in Sleaford almost every night
I can confirm that even a TA infantry officers basic training is significantly more arduous than dicking around Thetford forest with a couple of anaemic pine poles. On my flight we had a transitioning to RAF Officer from Army WO helo pilot in his late thirties with buckets more hands on leadership skills than most of the Cranwell Flight Commanders. He walked everything half asleep, but was forced to stoically endure R squadron because the staff "didn't like his attitude", or maybe they didn't like the fact that he was entitled to wear RAF wings on his cadet uniform, and in most cases the educators, stackers and techies filling many of the Flight Commander slots, with a lot of experience leading the way to NAAFI tea break didn't have them at all
In any case as our Canadian friend has expressed, you don't get many pine poles in a cockpit.
What if a number of civilian multi engine airline pilots, want to enter as specialist aircrew, to fly C130, Nimrod, Helo etc, leaving the young hot shots to tear around in the high G environment. With minimal transition, focusing on tactical flying skills, shoudn't this be of tremedous help to the RAF and the country, if the rumours of mass departures from the RAF in this forum are to be believed.
There is no doubt in my mind that we may be facing the biggest conflagration since the second world war, and like that one, it is creeping up on us, with the audience screaming "look out behind you !!!!!!"
A bit of lateral thinking about how to keep our armed forces in business in difficult time, might well be a damned good thing.
Last edited by rmac; 5th May 2007 at 09:40. Reason: spelling
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
rmac, how you managed to construct a negative reply from my post I have no idea.
Have I said NO? I said
I then suggested reasons why there was a limit. You then continue to cite a TA Officer and an Army WO cross-over. These are also special cases - they are already in; their training risk level is different.
You made the valid point that,
but here I can speak with more authority.
To be a spec aircrew pilot you must be an officer. To be an officer you must go through OASC and be accepted as commissionable. You must then go through IOT and learn how to be an officer. There are, as far as I know, no short cuts.
And that is the nub of your comment with the counter that there are sufficient high quality applicants within the right age bracket presenting at OASC.
I was going to add my own comments but I don't think they would be relevant right now.
You remind me of the staff that British Airways post as keepers of the gates at the airport lounges all itching to get the satisfaction of saying no
I don't know the real reason why the latest age to start training in the RAF is 24
You made the valid point that,
What if a number of civilian multi engine airline pilots, want to enter as specialist aircrew
To be a spec aircrew pilot you must be an officer. To be an officer you must go through OASC and be accepted as commissionable. You must then go through IOT and learn how to be an officer. There are, as far as I know, no short cuts.
A bit of lateral thinking about how to keep our armed forces in business in difficult time, might well be a damned good thing
I was going to add my own comments but I don't think they would be relevant right now.
