Working Hours
I've got a great idea. Why don't we reduce the number of people in the armed forces and then deploy them around the world, making sure that we are 'stretched, but not over-stretched'.
Then just keep asking the guys to do more and more, and simply 'cope'.
Then just keep asking the guys to do more and more, and simply 'cope'.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On Resettlement
Age: 55
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The bean-counters are winning, and we are helping them do it!
Everything these days is about the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
Uncle Gordon's bean-counters demand a cut!
We complain that we will not cope if they do.
They do it anyway.
We work the extra hours, and still get the job done, because that's just what Servicemen do, and we cope.
This new working arrangement becomes the norm.
And repeat...(several times)
If we keep doing it, we are not helping the Service, especially when the catastrophic failure happens, we are just letting them get away with it.
It MUST STOP, and NOW!
MadAxeMan
P.S. BrownJob, go back to being smug in your sangar, and hope that a Herc with a knakered crew does not crash on you. All the while thinking of how those sniffling bean counters are taking the pi$$, and YOU are helping them do it.
Uncle Gordon's bean-counters demand a cut!
We complain that we will not cope if they do.
They do it anyway.
We work the extra hours, and still get the job done, because that's just what Servicemen do, and we cope.
This new working arrangement becomes the norm.
And repeat...(several times)
If we keep doing it, we are not helping the Service, especially when the catastrophic failure happens, we are just letting them get away with it.
It MUST STOP, and NOW!
MadAxeMan
P.S. BrownJob, go back to being smug in your sangar, and hope that a Herc with a knakered crew does not crash on you. All the while thinking of how those sniffling bean counters are taking the pi$$, and YOU are helping them do it.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 58
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the old clipboard up and down past the bosses office works well. Do it when you 1st get in and a couple of times in the next few hours, then go home.
Works for me, 10hrs per week max (unless in Sand pit, not so effective there!!)
Works for me, 10hrs per week max (unless in Sand pit, not so effective there!!)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Racedo blows goats
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a boss with no life who believed that unless you did 60 hrs a week as the norm you were slacking. My view was that if you could not get the job done, you were under resourced, so do some of that management stuff (your job) and apply for an establishment variation, or you were incompetent and should not be there. Poor bit of manager management on my part telling him that though.
Before you jump down my throat the beancounters were not ruling the roost then and establishment variations could be filled if you could be arsed to submit the paperwork. Perhaps it is still worth trying just to show how short you are of manpower even though you know it is a waste of time.
regards
retard
Before you jump down my throat the beancounters were not ruling the roost then and establishment variations could be filled if you could be arsed to submit the paperwork. Perhaps it is still worth trying just to show how short you are of manpower even though you know it is a waste of time.
regards
retard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What only 24 hours in a day - Get a longer candle
Back in another life i.e RAF time. During one Morning Prayers, a SNCO ventured he was working a lot of over time. Smart Alec officer retorted 'You obviously cannot manage your resources properly, I suggest you learn how to do so.' Everybody very surprised, but the man had spoken, time was remanaged and everybody went home at normal time and the aeroplanes waited.
Now I read it is back to the very 'old days''- you do not have a private life, work till you drop, we have always managed, etc. Sad days.
Davey Boy,
I don't know if the services are affected by the EU work regulations regarding hours directive. But, beware the airline industry has neatly circumvented the hours limitation. Everybody has been promoted to 'Manager', no extra pay or benefits except you will now work longer hours.
In the US of A, the FAA has a very nicely worded regulation (for employers, that is). Aircraft maintenance workers may work seven days continously with one rest period of 24 hours, or the equivalent rest perion over a four week period. No limitation on the working day.
I am now old and wise enough to call it a day after twelve hours and walk off the job, with hanbdover naturally. But, I can imagine a serviceman doing likewise and some inexperienced, ladder climbing junior officer taking understanding action against said individual. Not the same outcome, I think. Long days are not the special preserve of the military, unfortunately.
Try Harder,
Post-RAF, I have spent many days 'sleeping' in airline seats, not recommended when there is work after landing. In my RAF flying days - God's Aeroplanes had bunks.
Regarding fatigue being the cause behind an accident, it has happened already, more times than you and I together have had hot dinners. It would be hidden under 'an accumulation of events' clause, and that makes it all right then.
The solution - give Uncle Gordon time. He is busy putting all training out to a PFI, when that is up and running to his satisfaction, i.e costing more than a full military budget, he will civilianise the whole armed forces and screw the whole shooting match (sorry, no pun intended). Then you will be able to work as you please, lots of overtime pay, whatever, it only costs money and it doesn't show on the books because it is a PFI and the voters will never know.
Sleep well, Fly safe, Walk in the house.
James A
Now I read it is back to the very 'old days''- you do not have a private life, work till you drop, we have always managed, etc. Sad days.
Davey Boy,
I don't know if the services are affected by the EU work regulations regarding hours directive. But, beware the airline industry has neatly circumvented the hours limitation. Everybody has been promoted to 'Manager', no extra pay or benefits except you will now work longer hours.
In the US of A, the FAA has a very nicely worded regulation (for employers, that is). Aircraft maintenance workers may work seven days continously with one rest period of 24 hours, or the equivalent rest perion over a four week period. No limitation on the working day.
I am now old and wise enough to call it a day after twelve hours and walk off the job, with hanbdover naturally. But, I can imagine a serviceman doing likewise and some inexperienced, ladder climbing junior officer taking understanding action against said individual. Not the same outcome, I think. Long days are not the special preserve of the military, unfortunately.
Try Harder,
Post-RAF, I have spent many days 'sleeping' in airline seats, not recommended when there is work after landing. In my RAF flying days - God's Aeroplanes had bunks.
Regarding fatigue being the cause behind an accident, it has happened already, more times than you and I together have had hot dinners. It would be hidden under 'an accumulation of events' clause, and that makes it all right then.
The solution - give Uncle Gordon time. He is busy putting all training out to a PFI, when that is up and running to his satisfaction, i.e costing more than a full military budget, he will civilianise the whole armed forces and screw the whole shooting match (sorry, no pun intended). Then you will be able to work as you please, lots of overtime pay, whatever, it only costs money and it doesn't show on the books because it is a PFI and the voters will never know.
Sleep well, Fly safe, Walk in the house.
James A
James A
What only 24 hours in a day - Get a longer candle
It can be done - a fellow I used to know was the proud possessor of a certificate confirming that he had completed 48 hours of work in one day.
This was onboard a patrol submarine which broke down in the Pacific and then, in the middle of non stop work right round the clock to repair the defect, drifted over the International Date Line, so that the engineers concerned achieved in effect 48 hours work in one day ..... almost certainly for no extra pay!
Jack
It can be done - a fellow I used to know was the proud possessor of a certificate confirming that he had completed 48 hours of work in one day.
This was onboard a patrol submarine which broke down in the Pacific and then, in the middle of non stop work right round the clock to repair the defect, drifted over the International Date Line, so that the engineers concerned achieved in effect 48 hours work in one day ..... almost certainly for no extra pay!
Jack
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: South
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Through the banter, it is easy to see that no-one is afraid of hard work. If extra hours are required, I've always seen guys step up to the mark. The frustrations arise, particularly in Ops/HQ set-ups, when you're waiting for the what-ifs; and if your Boss is waiting for the what-ifs, he wants his entire team available. Thus you end up, not working long hours, but seeing time pass.
The problem is, there's only one of you making the decisions. Unfortunately, the Warfighting aspect of 24hr Ops has been watered down by Commercial means testing of 'predicting the customer requirement!' In the old days, manpower redundancy meant something else. Our military ethos of 'be there and cope' had the advantage that at the end of your shift, someone else would 'be there...' Now it's 'stay there and cope', and the 'bucket of cope' is very thin with very little support.
The problem is, there's only one of you making the decisions. Unfortunately, the Warfighting aspect of 24hr Ops has been watered down by Commercial means testing of 'predicting the customer requirement!' In the old days, manpower redundancy meant something else. Our military ethos of 'be there and cope' had the advantage that at the end of your shift, someone else would 'be there...' Now it's 'stay there and cope', and the 'bucket of cope' is very thin with very little support.
the prior...
''The USAF have a core value - Service Before Self. ''
SO DO WE!!! Have you not read AP1?? Surely you must have. It is my waking read, and also, if I feel a little dispondant I simply read it to boost my morale. Let me enlighten you to just a touch more of it...
THE CORE VALUES OF THE RAF
RESPECT-Mutual and self respect
INTEGRITY-Integrity always
SERVICE - Service before self
EXCELLENCE - Striving for excellence
I only hope that I have helped you through this morning, and no doubt your future RAF career. Should you forget any of the above, you can simply remember it as RISE.
3BB
''The USAF have a core value - Service Before Self. ''
SO DO WE!!! Have you not read AP1?? Surely you must have. It is my waking read, and also, if I feel a little dispondant I simply read it to boost my morale. Let me enlighten you to just a touch more of it...
THE CORE VALUES OF THE RAF
RESPECT-Mutual and self respect
INTEGRITY-Integrity always
SERVICE - Service before self
EXCELLENCE - Striving for excellence
I only hope that I have helped you through this morning, and no doubt your future RAF career. Should you forget any of the above, you can simply remember it as RISE.
3BB
