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Join Date: May 2004
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Sounds like a real leader.
Sorry, did I say leader? I meant tw*t.
Sorry, did I say leader? I meant tw*t.
So his idea of leadership is to suggest that is within his power to authorise the first example of an ordered kamikaze attack in the Royal Air Force's 89 year history.
What we are dealing with here is a monsterous ego running amock. He is subtly suggesting that he is so powerful that, if he wished, he could order anyone in his command to die. The only thing worse than a fool is a deluded fool.
He should be reminded that the aircraft are not his to do with as he wishes, no more than any station commander has his own private air force.
I find it troubling that it would appear that no one in the room thought the suggestion was ridiculous and put their hand up to tell him so. If someone did please, please tell me I am wrong. Are we really now so cowed and lacking in spirit that no-one had the courage to stand up to him?
AOC he may be, God he is not!
What we are dealing with here is a monsterous ego running amock. He is subtly suggesting that he is so powerful that, if he wished, he could order anyone in his command to die. The only thing worse than a fool is a deluded fool.
He should be reminded that the aircraft are not his to do with as he wishes, no more than any station commander has his own private air force.
I find it troubling that it would appear that no one in the room thought the suggestion was ridiculous and put their hand up to tell him so. If someone did please, please tell me I am wrong. Are we really now so cowed and lacking in spirit that no-one had the courage to stand up to him?
AOC he may be, God he is not!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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This event most certainly did happen.....absoutely incredible.
Issues I have with this ridiculous idea:
1. The idea of senior officers ordering their personnel to commit suicide is disgusting.
2. Is the life of one rag worth the life of one UK serviceman?
3. Imagine, as you are floating skyward towards the pearly gates having parked your jet in the desert at 500kts, that INT had it wrong, and that the bloke driving the car was actually a plumber driving his children to school?
4. Imagine trying to fly your fast pointy thing at an evading car. I am almost certain that you would tent peg, having missed. The bloke driving only has to swerve at the last minute and generate a miss distance of 20 feet or so and it's good night Vienna and mission failed.
IMHO, utter, utter madness, stated from the relative security of a position in the hierarchy that would never have to carry out such an act.
Issues I have with this ridiculous idea:
1. The idea of senior officers ordering their personnel to commit suicide is disgusting.
2. Is the life of one rag worth the life of one UK serviceman?
3. Imagine, as you are floating skyward towards the pearly gates having parked your jet in the desert at 500kts, that INT had it wrong, and that the bloke driving the car was actually a plumber driving his children to school?
4. Imagine trying to fly your fast pointy thing at an evading car. I am almost certain that you would tent peg, having missed. The bloke driving only has to swerve at the last minute and generate a miss distance of 20 feet or so and it's good night Vienna and mission failed.
IMHO, utter, utter madness, stated from the relative security of a position in the hierarchy that would never have to carry out such an act.
Join Date: May 2004
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Is "controlled flight into a target" a recognised tactic?
Is it included in an approved training syllabus?
Is it "proportionate use of force" as required by the various laws and conventions on armed conflict?
Is it included in an approved training syllabus?
Is it "proportionate use of force" as required by the various laws and conventions on armed conflict?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Fear not chaps, according to the BBC news website (sorry don't know how to post the link) Qinetic have carried out trials for multiple remote controlled aircraft, being operated by one pilot in the air. So there you go Cyber Kamikaze's.
This is the link, hopefully it will work.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6514413.stm
This is the link, hopefully it will work.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6514413.stm
Last edited by Dan Gerous; 2nd Apr 2007 at 09:39. Reason: to add limk
Join Date: Oct 1999
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This incident did happen and I was there. To be clear - I think the idea is barking for all the reasons stated; would you trust Int/would it make a difference being uppermost in my mind. However, I think you will find that the AOC was deliberately floating a controversial idea to spark a debate - he seems to have been successful!
The full context was to stimulate thought on the changed nature of the demands upon AD vs Muds - I suspect, for example, that we would all consider flying into a rogue airliner though I'll warrant we would all hope for a survivable collision, even if we knew we were probably deluding ourselves.
He can certainly have the odd Melchett moment but he is also the most dynamic AOC that I have seen for along time, with a clear vision of where he wants to take a Service that he clearly wants the best for. I'd rather have a leader like this than a timid man whose primary interest is the next promotion and a consequent fear of ever putting his head above the parapet.
The full context was to stimulate thought on the changed nature of the demands upon AD vs Muds - I suspect, for example, that we would all consider flying into a rogue airliner though I'll warrant we would all hope for a survivable collision, even if we knew we were probably deluding ourselves.
He can certainly have the odd Melchett moment but he is also the most dynamic AOC that I have seen for along time, with a clear vision of where he wants to take a Service that he clearly wants the best for. I'd rather have a leader like this than a timid man whose primary interest is the next promotion and a consequent fear of ever putting his head above the parapet.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Captain Kirk,
"He can certainly have the odd Melchett moment but he is also the most dynamic AOC that I have seen for along time, with a clear vision of where he wants to take a Service that he clearly wants the best for. I'd rather have a leader like this than a timid man whose primary interest is the next promotion and a consequent fear of ever putting his head above the parapet."
He may well have a clear vision of where he wants to go, but will the powers that be let him in todays climate? I think an AOC's power is not what it once was, which is quite sad really.
"He can certainly have the odd Melchett moment but he is also the most dynamic AOC that I have seen for along time, with a clear vision of where he wants to take a Service that he clearly wants the best for. I'd rather have a leader like this than a timid man whose primary interest is the next promotion and a consequent fear of ever putting his head above the parapet."
He may well have a clear vision of where he wants to go, but will the powers that be let him in todays climate? I think an AOC's power is not what it once was, which is quite sad really.
QWI course? Doesn't say much for the quality of weapons application training if the last resort is to ram with the aircraft. Or are we too broke now to afford cannon, rockets etc?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Sounds like the Sun journos have been cribbing from Pprune again. Tomorrow's front page will be this thread! I might actually have a read of the gutter rag tomorrow before I wipe my hoop with it.
