Kinloss........Whats Going on?
To my recollection, and as described at:
http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/_Nimr...odn%20list.txt
PN is absolutely correct in his assertations. XV147 and 148 were both "owned" by the Mod as trials platforms and were the only 2 aircraft modified from the Comet and neither saw any operational service. Every other airframe was a new build as a Nimrod.
http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/_Nimr...odn%20list.txt
PN is absolutely correct in his assertations. XV147 and 148 were both "owned" by the Mod as trials platforms and were the only 2 aircraft modified from the Comet and neither saw any operational service. Every other airframe was a new build as a Nimrod.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NLH, thanks for that link and confirmation that there were actually 46 MPA Nimrods built. Th eoriginal order was 38 and a follow on order, the XZs were I think ordered by Ted Heath for the Malta Sqn (?).
PS, to add to that, the first XZ airframes began life, and saw service, as MR1s before being pulled for the AEW programme. Only the last XZs became straight AEW and even then they might have had MR tails first.
BAe accounting and contract meant they got a stage payment for the airframe when they were delivered to the RAF. Their accounting year ended 31 Dec. One year we had several undercoated jets lob into ISK about Christmas, only to be flown out the following days to be re-fitted. Wierd.
PS, to add to that, the first XZ airframes began life, and saw service, as MR1s before being pulled for the AEW programme. Only the last XZs became straight AEW and even then they might have had MR tails first.
BAe accounting and contract meant they got a stage payment for the airframe when they were delivered to the RAF. Their accounting year ended 31 Dec. One year we had several undercoated jets lob into ISK about Christmas, only to be flown out the following days to be re-fitted. Wierd.
PN: Malta Sqd was 203 and disbanded in 1977, our aircraft were originally earmarked to go to St Mawgan, I am not sure if some had anything to do with conversion for 51 sqd.
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XW664, XW665 & XW666 all new build for 51, in the same sense as the MR as discussed to death above. All were delivered long before 77. Conversion of maritime to R1 not easy as BAES found out when converting XV249 when '66 was lost in the Moray Firth.
S_H
S_H
Thanks again S_H, I was on 51 late 70's at Wyton but did not know the history of those three aircraft. Come to think of it when I was on the NMSU in 72-74 I remember now the rumours of a new version, that was a long way back no wonder my memory is a bit off.
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PN: It is reported that;
"The first detection of a submerged Soviet nuclear submarine by the RAF occured on August 30th 1970, when a Nimrod flying out of St Mawgan located a "November" -class hunter-killer. The sonar operator who located it was Al Thomas, who retired from the RAF in 2003 with the rank of Squadron Leader."
Now, I know nothing about AEOs with "wooden" legs, but Al Thomas did an excellent job with a Nimrod without avionics.
DV
"The first detection of a submerged Soviet nuclear submarine by the RAF occured on August 30th 1970, when a Nimrod flying out of St Mawgan located a "November" -class hunter-killer. The sonar operator who located it was Al Thomas, who retired from the RAF in 2003 with the rank of Squadron Leader."
Now, I know nothing about AEOs with "wooden" legs, but Al Thomas did an excellent job with a Nimrod without avionics.
DV
As one of the first groundcrew assigned to the Nimrod at St Mawgan and someone who "saw in" XV230 on it arrival, I can state with total confidence that the aircraft delivered to the OCU at St. Mawgan were fully fitted out avionics wise. It's true that there were crew positions without any assigned equipment, but all of the mission avionics was present on the OCU aircraft.
In addition these were definitely new build airframes.
In addition these were definitely new build airframes.
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DV
Would that be the same "moaner" Thomas that did a tour at ISK and moaned every day that he should not be there as his wife was struggling to run the guest house in St Mawgan
The MR1 Nimrod was fully avionic in the 70's with basic Jezebel, Mk1C Sonics and Autolycus (sniffer - ha! ha!) remember Raymond Baxter? - former Spitfire pilot and Defence Correspondent for the Torygraph who thought a Jaguar was an F111 at a Biggin Hill airshow
The prosthetic AEO was on CXX
During an "O-4-F*cksake'' SAR callout, the crew were delayed whilst the AEO bolted his leg on. The Sqn Boss then ordered him to sleep with his leg on when on SAR
All the Malta ac were destined for the scrap-heap when they were nominated for the Mk3 programme and re-assigned XZ
Considered a white elephant, I would have called it the ' Platypuss' - any better offers?
Would that be the same "moaner" Thomas that did a tour at ISK and moaned every day that he should not be there as his wife was struggling to run the guest house in St Mawgan
The MR1 Nimrod was fully avionic in the 70's with basic Jezebel, Mk1C Sonics and Autolycus (sniffer - ha! ha!) remember Raymond Baxter? - former Spitfire pilot and Defence Correspondent for the Torygraph who thought a Jaguar was an F111 at a Biggin Hill airshow
The prosthetic AEO was on CXX
During an "O-4-F*cksake'' SAR callout, the crew were delayed whilst the AEO bolted his leg on. The Sqn Boss then ordered him to sleep with his leg on when on SAR
All the Malta ac were destined for the scrap-heap when they were nominated for the Mk3 programme and re-assigned XZ
Considered a white elephant, I would have called it the ' Platypuss' - any better offers?
Buoy 15,
"All the Malta ac were destined for the scrap-heap when they were nominated for the Mk3 programme and re-assigned XZ"
Not true, those aircraft were never anything but XZ, and they came back from Malta and did time as MR1's. I flew in 80-85 whilst on 42 at St Mawgan in the seventies, 82 and 84 at least, were converted to MR2 and 84 was still around until comparatively recently.
As PN said they were a second batch of airframes ordered subsequently from the first 38. Hence the different serial numbers.
"All the Malta ac were destined for the scrap-heap when they were nominated for the Mk3 programme and re-assigned XZ"
Not true, those aircraft were never anything but XZ, and they came back from Malta and did time as MR1's. I flew in 80-85 whilst on 42 at St Mawgan in the seventies, 82 and 84 at least, were converted to MR2 and 84 was still around until comparatively recently.
As PN said they were a second batch of airframes ordered subsequently from the first 38. Hence the different serial numbers.
Last edited by Not Long Here; 25th May 2007 at 21:22. Reason: Add 82
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RAF base in green drive
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scot...m?id=819162007
THE Ministry of Defence yesterday launched a multi-million-pound project to ensure its operations at RAF Kinloss do not harm an environmentally-sensitive nature site.
I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING.
THE Ministry of Defence yesterday launched a multi-million-pound project to ensure its operations at RAF Kinloss do not harm an environmentally-sensitive nature site.
I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING.
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Welcome to the parallel universe called MoD TD.
I'm all for saving the fragile eco system of Findhorn Bay
I'm even more interested in saving lives.
It shouldn't be too difficult to get your priorities right, should it?
TD, perhaps a wee FOI request to find out the funding for this project?
I'm all for saving the fragile eco system of Findhorn Bay
I'm even more interested in saving lives.
It shouldn't be too difficult to get your priorities right, should it?
TD, perhaps a wee FOI request to find out the funding for this project?
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TD if your MOD is the same as our DOD, then they have no choice in the matter. If they fail in their Heath and safety/ecological obligations then they are fined vast amounts of cash. Its the law and the MOD/DOD do not stand above it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Foxthree,
It is not the same here. True there is no longer crown immunity but as the MOD is part of Government it would just be a question of swilling cash around the pot.
Where we would lose is if we, as individuals, were prosecuted.
We are involved in a trustle with one of our Environmental organisations, I am not sure where they fit in pecking order. Essentially we will win. However we do try and avoid bad publicity and also gain good publicity. The Kinloss works do both these and the fact it is in Scotland makes it even better.
It is not the same here. True there is no longer crown immunity but as the MOD is part of Government it would just be a question of swilling cash around the pot.
Where we would lose is if we, as individuals, were prosecuted.
We are involved in a trustle with one of our Environmental organisations, I am not sure where they fit in pecking order. Essentially we will win. However we do try and avoid bad publicity and also gain good publicity. The Kinloss works do both these and the fact it is in Scotland makes it even better.
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A bit of History
There seems to be some confusion over what was fitted where and when to the Nimrod MR1's. When the aircraft were first delivered the following equipment had designated positions in the ac, but were never fitted in operational ac (I do not know about any trials ac):
Autocyclus Although the simulators were fitted.
Infra-red linescan
DEER - Directional Explosive Echo Ranging (julie)
I think this may have been the equipment refered to as not being fitted for early trials. All equipment fitted in the operational ac was off the shelf from other ac or platforms.
The extra 11 MR1's were ordered under the auspice of operation Tapestry. These were XZ registration, only one was converted to MR2 (XZ284 ?), the remaining ac became AEW 3 before being ultimately scrapped.
It is true the airframe was of comet design but new build with appropriate modifications, as I said, everything was off the shelf.
As for operating in hot conditions, the ac was always planned to do so, in fact it operated out of Singapore up until 1975 for several months at a time. They weren't perfect thats for sure, but that was maybe because they were new.
I am full of similar info should you wish any more.
Autocyclus Although the simulators were fitted.
Infra-red linescan
DEER - Directional Explosive Echo Ranging (julie)
I think this may have been the equipment refered to as not being fitted for early trials. All equipment fitted in the operational ac was off the shelf from other ac or platforms.
The extra 11 MR1's were ordered under the auspice of operation Tapestry. These were XZ registration, only one was converted to MR2 (XZ284 ?), the remaining ac became AEW 3 before being ultimately scrapped.
It is true the airframe was of comet design but new build with appropriate modifications, as I said, everything was off the shelf.
As for operating in hot conditions, the ac was always planned to do so, in fact it operated out of Singapore up until 1975 for several months at a time. They weren't perfect thats for sure, but that was maybe because they were new.
I am full of similar info should you wish any more.
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Cheers for that AQAfive, im sick of people scare mongering over this a/c it is a work horse and will continue to be one for years yet to come. Ill fly on any of them any day.