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Chinese CVA by 2010

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Chinese CVA by 2010

Old 2nd Nov 2017, 16:15
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Ken, I think that the biggest reasons are two: First Admiral Rickover, and then the law.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 06:23
  #62 (permalink)  
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4 CBGs by 2030. 3rd as stated with EMALS, 4th is supposed to be nuclear.

China has started building its third aircraft carrier, military sources say

China started building its third aircraft carrier, with a hi-tech launch system, at a Shanghai shipyard last year, according to sources close to the People’s Liberation Army.

One of the sources said Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard Group was given the go-ahead to begin work on the vessel after military leaders met in Beijing following the annual sessions of China’s legislature and top political advisory body in March. “But the shipyard is still working on the carrier’s hull, which is expected to take about two years,” the source said. “Building the new carrier will be more complicated and challenging than the other two ships.”......

The sources all said it was too early to say when the third vessel would be launched, but China plans to have four aircraft carrier battle groups in service by 2030, according to naval experts.

Shipbuilders and technicians from Shanghai and Dalian are working on the third vessel, which will have a displacement of about 80,000 tonnes – 10,000 tonnes more than the Liaoning, according to another source close to the PLA Navy. “China has set up a strong and professional aircraft carrier team since early 2000, when it decided to retrofit the Varyag [the unfinished vessel China bought from Ukraine] to launch as the Liaoning, and it hired many Ukrainian experts ... as technical advisers,” the second source said.

The sources also confirmed that the new vessel, the CV-18, will use a launch system that is more advanced than the Soviet-designed ski-jump systems used in its other two aircraft carriers. Its electromagnetic aircraft launch system will mean less wear and tear on the planes and it will allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than other systems.

The latest aircraft carrier project has been in the pipeline for some time. Satellite images taken back in 2009 showed a huge frame had been installed at the Shanghai shipyard to accommodate large-scale projects. That year, its general manager Nan Daqing told Shanghai Dragon TV the company was “fully prepared” to build the country’s first home-grown aircraft carrier....



Sources said the layout of the new aircraft carrier, including its flight deck and “island” command centre, would be different from the other two. “The new vessel will have a smaller tower island than the Liaoning and its sister ship because it needs to accommodate China’s carrier-based J-15 fighter jets, which are quite large,” the first source said. “It has been suggested that they look to Britain’s warship, the HMS Queen Elizabeth, which has two small tower islands on the deck. That would create more space for the runway and aircraft, but no final decision has been made yet.”

China’s navy has meanwhile begun training its own fighter pilots, rather than recruiting them from the air force, as it prepares to expand the fleet, the official PLA Daily reported.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 22:03
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Guess who's coming to dinner.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 05:53
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KenV View Post
The main advantage of the nuke plants in US carriers is that the tankage used to store ship's propulsion fuel can instead be used to store aircraft fuel. They also allow the carrier to steam at sustained high speed for long distances to quickly arrive at a distant trouble spot without resorting to refueling enroute and arriving there ready to generate a large number of aircraft sorties.
Well that's the idea. But in practice the carrier has to hang around for its escorting fleet (it's a bit vulnerable without it), and runs out of food and aviation fuel anyway.

There's a big trade off between the size of a nuke plant and the size of a gas turbine plant. A nuke plant is quite large, with quite a large steam section, large wet turbines. Gas turbines are quite small and compact and lightweight, leaves a lot of room for fuel which is anyway the same stuff as the aircraft are using, or can be. So no need for separate fuel bunkerage. RN helos run on marine diesel.

If the carrier has to regularly RAS for food and fuel, it may just as well take on more fuel to move the ship too. That was the RN's conclusion. I recall a lot of discussion as to whether the new carriers should be nuclear powered, but it just didn't seem to be worth it. About the only thing it brings is the ability to run away jolly quickly for a long time, leaving everyone else behind.

However if you're prepared to let the carrier operate more independently of an escorting fleet then the long legs of a nuke does help. The newer USN carriers are larger, and have a lot more storage, probably for more of this type of operation.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 08:53
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RN helos run on marine diesel.
Fairly sure they use AVCAT and the ships use marine diesel. Certainly had a separate tank for the AVCAT on any ship I've been on.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 11:31
  #66 (permalink)  
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Hmm, I believe that was slightly tongue in cheek - the QE is driven by RR MT30 gas turbines - 80% common with the Trent 800 on the Boeing 777.....
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 11:59
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Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
... Perhaps the Chinese are working on the fact that large numbers of simple bits of kit are probably worth much more than a couple of gold-plated ones. And if the jets on board are good.....................
.............even if they are not ‘gold-plated’......

Indeed, China has always subscribed to the ‘throw away', 'one time use', and 'human wave/life(Chinese)' is cheap and expendable.

And why like ants they will probably end up ruling the world.

Just glad I won’t be around.

With regard to carrier aviation, it is pretty complex,and the USN has around a 100 years prior hard-won experience, paid for in blood, so the Chinese will have just a little catching up to do, which no doubt they will.

Interesting to see that they are copying US procedures, but then that is sensible.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 12:58
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An interesting thing about that picture is the container ship being built alongside. Look at the container slots, ten containers wide. Multiply by six, seven or eight containers high and you have a rough idea how many it will take.

Ships of that size and construction require to carry containers all the time. Full or empty they are part of the structural integrity.
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Old 7th Jan 2018, 12:33
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I am waiting for the all-the-time autoland and the UAVs to show up. Either with the second or third ship.
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Old 8th Jan 2018, 15:06
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bing View Post
Fairly sure they use AVCAT and the ships use marine diesel. Certainly had a separate tank for the AVCAT on any ship I've been on.
Most western military ships are designed to use Naval Distilllate Fuel (NDF), also known as NATO F-76. All such vessels can also be fueled by JP-5, (NATO F-44, known in the UK as DEF STAN 91-86 AVCAT/FSII.) JP-5/F-44 has about a 5% lower energy density than F-76. So while diesel engines can use either fuel interchangeably, the diesel engine will produce about 5% less power when running on JP-5.
Most land-based military aircraft use JP-8 (NATO F-34, British Defense Standard 91-87).

FWIW, F-76 has a very tight specification that includes a high storage stability test. Commercial marine/diesel fuel must be carefully rotated to ensure it is used before it becomes unstable. F-76 is "guaranteed" stable to a minimum of 24 months.

Last edited by KenV; 8th Jan 2018 at 15:23.
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Old 8th Jan 2018, 15:21
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Hmm, I believe that was slightly tongue in cheek - the QE is driven by RR MT30 gas turbines - 80% common with the Trent 800 on the Boeing 777.....
Not just the MT30 marine gas turbines. QE is also powered by diesels (4 × Warsila 38 marine diesels). She normally cruises on just the diesels for economy, but can quickly fire up the marine gas turbines when additional power is required. (for example, generating "wind over the deck" on a still air day.)
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 08:24
  #72 (permalink)  
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China prepares aircraft carrier for sea trial

China's first domestically built carrier, known as the Type 001A, is undergoing preparations for its first sea trial, while discussions about its name show that Chinese people hold high expectations of the carrier's ability to resolve the Taiwan question.

According to the latest online photos from the Dalian Shipbuilding Industry Company (DSIC) construction site in Liaoning Province, where the carrier was launched and outfitted, the scaffolds on the carrier have been completely removed, and a phased array radar has been installed. "All the equipment and devices on the carrier are in the joint debugging stage, and the main engine has been powered. In 2018, we will present a surprise to the Chinese people," DSIC Chairman Liu Zheng said, according to a report on cctv.com, the official website of China Central Television, on March 13........

"This all proves that the Type 001A is getting ready for its first sea trial, and the exact timing will depend on factors like the weather and sea conditions. April 23 is Navy Day, the founding day of the PLA Navy [April 23 1949], so this might also be taken into consideration," Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Tuesday. "After the sea trial, which normally takes about 6-12 months, it will be ready for delivery to the PLA Navy, so it's very likely we will see the carrier enlisted by the end of 2018," said Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator.

Full speed

The Type 001A was launched in Dalian on April 26 2017, three days after Navy Day, and the outfitting work only took about one year. The speed with which the Type 001A was built was the fastest in the history of aircraft carrier construction, as it only took two years from the laying of the foundation in the shipyard to its launch, and more importantly, everything from the ship's body to its devices is domestically built, Liu said. "The quality of our construction is also world-class. For example, the world-class standard for the flatness of the flight deck is not more than 4 percent, and we made it lower than 3 percent," Liu noted.

All in the name

During the Two Sessions, Yuan Maorong, an NPC deputy from Taizhou city, East China's Zhejiang Province, suggested naming the carrier "Wei Wen", after a military general from the Three Kingdoms period (AD 184/220-280) who was the first man in history to arrive at Taiwan, according to cctv.com on March 13. Yuan said naming the carrier Wei Wen would show the historical fact of Taiwan being an integral part of China, and push the development of Cross-Straits relations.

The discussion of how the ship should be named has also been spreading in social media. Many Chinese netizens suggested simply naming the carrier "Taiwan," while others suggested naming it "Shi Lang", an admiral who recaptured Taiwan for the Qing Dynasty. "This displays the high expectations among the Chinese people over solving the Taiwan question, because they want the country to use the first domestically built aircraft carrier as a symbol to announce its determination and ability to achieve this aim, and also send a tough warning signal to the secessionists in Taiwan," Li noted.

However, the carrier is not targeting Taiwan, according to a military expert from a Beijing-based military academy who requested anonymity. He explained that if Beijing decided to use military measures to solve the Taiwan question, the PLA is fully capable of doing so without an aircraft carrier, and Type 001A was made for a greater purpose.

"The PLA Navy has regulations for naming large vessels like aircraft carriers, which generally use the names of provinces and municipalities," Song said. "Liaoning is primarily a platform for training personnel and collecting data through testing, while Type 001A is China's first carrier made for combat missions, so its name could be more special. It's impossible to name it with a person's name, for only vessels used for scientific research can use a person's name in China," said the anonymous military expert.
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Old 13th May 2018, 08:38
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CVA-2 starts sea trials.

http://alert5.com/2018/05/13/watch-t...craft-carrier/
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 08:06
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https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...rriers-replace

China is working on a new fighter jet for aircraft carriers to replace its J-15s

China is developing a new fighter jet for aircraft carriers to replace its J-15s after a series of mechanical failures and crashes, as it tries to build up a blue-water navy that can operate globally, military experts and sources said.

China is developing a new fighter jet for aircraft carriers to replace its J-15s after a series of mechanical failures and crashes, as it tries to build up a blue-water navy that can operate globally, military experts and sources said...... China needs to develop the new fighter jet as it plans to create at least four aircraft carrier groups to fulfil its global navy ambitions and defend its growing overseas interests,

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said. “In order to improve the combat effectiveness of the Chinese aircraft carrier strike groups, it is necessary to develop a new carrier-based fighter,” Li said, adding that the FC-31 stealth fighter could be used as a model to replace the J-15. China’s FC-31 is a newer generation stealth fighter that made its first flight in 2012, and is smaller and lighter than the J-15. Lieutenant General Zhang Honghe, deputy head of the PLA Air Force, also told the South China Morning Post that a “new carrier-based fighter to replace the J-15” was being developed......

The need to develop a new fighter jet has become more pressing after a series of “unpardonable mechanical failures” that have killed one top PLA pilot and injured another. Two sources close to the military told the Post there had been at least four crashes involving the J-15, although only two of them have been reported by state media. “The J-15 is a problematic aircraft – its unstable flight control system was the key factor behind the two fatal accidents two years ago,” one of the sources said.

Pilot Zhang Chao, 29, died in a crash in April 2016 as he tried to save his J-15 fighter jet, whose flight control system was breaking down during a mock landing on an aircraft carrier, according to state media reports. Three weeks later, his colleague Cao Xianjian, believed to be in his 40s, was seriously injured as he tried to deal with the same problem on a J-15. It took him more than a year to recover. All J-15s were grounded for three months after the crashes, which undermined morale in the air force and navy.

The navy called for an investigation after Zhang’s death, the sources said. “But the aviation experts at first refused to acknowledge that the J-15 has design problems,” one of the sources said. “They only agreed there were problems after Cao encountered the same trouble.”

Many of China’s home-grown fighter jets have had problems with their engines, aircraft design and modifications. But a PLA Navy veteran said that instead of carrying out more test flights, pilots were pushed to fly the warplanes, even though they had faults. “Of course it’s impossible to prevent any accident from ever happening during training. But unlike their counterparts in Western countries, Chinese air force pilots are asked to work around these mechanical errors,” the navy veteran said. Although pilots are taught to eject from their fighter jets in the event of a mechanical failure, they are also told they have a duty to “save the valuable aircraft”.

“PLA Air Force pilots are trained that it’s their mission to save the aircraft, which is state property ... but this needs to change because human lives are priceless,” the veteran said. “Aircraft can be rebuilt after a crash, but pilots are irreplaceable.”

Earlier this year, state broadcaster CCTV aired a propaganda programme praising Zhang and Cao for trying to save their jets as they were going down. Last week, Zhang was given a posthumous award for being “best party member”, while Cao was elected as the People’s Liberation Army representative at the Communist Party congress in October.


















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Old 4th May 2019, 06:35
  #75 (permalink)  
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Alert 5 » Pentagon says China?s first CATOBAR aircraft carrier will enter service in 2022 - Military Aviation News

Pentagon says China’s first CATOBAR aircraft carrier will enter service in 2022

The latest Pentagon 2019 China Military Power Report says the first Chinese aircraft carrier with catapults will enter the fleet in 2022. The second carrier will join the fleet by end of this year. Construction for the third carrier started in 2018.

https://media.defense.gov/2019/May/0...WER_REPORT.pdf
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Old 4th May 2019, 17:20
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well they are the most populous country in the world and will be one of the richest over the next few decades - not a surprise TBH

THE question is will the US be able or willing to keep building replacement "Fords" to keep the current forces in up to scratch.................... they don't come cheap.....
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Old 4th May 2019, 23:13
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Chinese aircraft carriers are the least the worries for local nations.

China to become world's largest missile producer: report?Politics?News?WantChinaTimes.com

Quantity has a quality all its own. If you saturate an area with conventional ballistic missiles, at some point all of the THAAD/Aegis/Patriot/Arrow batteries either run out of rounds or can't handle the flow of the missiles raining down.

"May you live in interesting times."

It appears that we do, particular those who live along the Pacific Rim.

Carrier is a long term project.
While original post is 5 plus years old it actually does hit the button right on the head in 2 ways.

Yup flood an area with missiles such that overcome any defence of missile.

Second stage is use of drone technology with disposable drones, thousands of them that have enough power to last for 6-12 hours plus. Thousands of tiny single drones with a tiny charge that are all around a carrier makes a complete suspension of air operations inevitable. But at least a carrier can steam away and hopefully get out of range. These would be like flying cluster bomb, that sanitise an area from major air operations.

Drill it back and think land based operations and imagine release of thousands of them around a base where refuelling aircraft are or anything else that is critical you need in the air. A drone does not need to be powerful but ingest one into an engine or crack a screen and base then is just a parking lot.
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Old 4th May 2019, 23:14
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
well they are the most populous country in the world and will be one of the richest over the next few decades - not a surprise TBH

THE question is will the US be able or willing to keep building replacement "Fords" to keep the current forces in up to scratch.................... they don't come cheap.....
I believe the US biggest threat over next 25 years is Internal not External.
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Old 5th May 2019, 15:31
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
I believe the US biggest threat over next 25 years is Internal not External.

Chemtrails Racedo? Be careful, the secret black helicopter is approaching.
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Old 5th May 2019, 22:02
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Chemtrails Racedo? Be careful, the secret black helicopter is approaching.
LOL you know exactly what I mean.

1911 Anti Trust broke up SOHIO, another case is needed on the Net giants.
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