Nimrods grounded rumour
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Why do we get to know about these things as an organisation through the media rather than our own internal network. I am on DII and there was no indication or release on it by the time I left work and it was only when I saw the Si O' clok news that I found out.
Tappers Dad, your continued concern for those of us in the service is most gratefully received. With regard to your comments about praying that the MOD will spend money to fix problems I am not willing to hold my breath. Our political masters will say everything tthey think will sound convincing in the media, but without any real care about those they are willing to commit to any whim they have. Why else would that idiot the(G)hoon extend the life of the VC10 fleet by another decade at least just before he left office when they are falling apart.
Tappers Dad, your continued concern for those of us in the service is most gratefully received. With regard to your comments about praying that the MOD will spend money to fix problems I am not willing to hold my breath. Our political masters will say everything tthey think will sound convincing in the media, but without any real care about those they are willing to commit to any whim they have. Why else would that idiot the(G)hoon extend the life of the VC10 fleet by another decade at least just before he left office when they are falling apart.
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The care and concern shown by Tappers Dad is also shared by family of other members of the crew. I for one would like to see the money, respect and backing given to our forces to which they should, rightly, deserve. I don't ever want to know that another sister is going through what I am by losing my brother Steve in this way, just as no parent should as in the case of Tappers Dad.
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I'm sorry I didn't think that any of the most unfortunate (poor expression but I can not find a better one at the moment) bereaved elatives were of a different opinion. Your loss was felt by all of us and our sympathies will be with you for a long time to come.
Laboratoryqueen, I fully agree that we deserve everything that you say; however, while the armed forces are just a means to their end (we keep their place at the global "big table") we never will be part of their grand plan - especially the unmentionable one form North of the Border (he must by now be referred to in the same manner as the Scottish Air Marshall!!!).
Let us see what next week brings.
Laboratoryqueen, I fully agree that we deserve everything that you say; however, while the armed forces are just a means to their end (we keep their place at the global "big table") we never will be part of their grand plan - especially the unmentionable one form North of the Border (he must by now be referred to in the same manner as the Scottish Air Marshall!!!).
Let us see what next week brings.
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A check revealed damage to the fuel pipe of at least one of the planes
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm...name_page.html
The Scottish Daily Record says"A check revealed damage to the fuel pipe of at least one of the planes - five months after a Nimrod crashed in Afghanistan, killing 14 British servicemen. "
Five months later and they are still finding problems !!!! What is going on.
To Quote the old Edwin Starr record.
Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
The Scottish Daily Record says"A check revealed damage to the fuel pipe of at least one of the planes - five months after a Nimrod crashed in Afghanistan, killing 14 British servicemen. "
Five months later and they are still finding problems !!!! What is going on.
To Quote the old Edwin Starr record.
Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives
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You might think a keen, enquiring mind (political or journalistic) would be asking questions about the ability of the Nimrod force to fulfil the array of military tasks (including SAR - not including pie and tea consumption) to which it is committed, despite:
a) Regular 'groundings'
b) the serviceability rate
c) the apparent haemorrhage of experienced air and ground crews
See PPrune threads various
You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
a) Regular 'groundings'
b) the serviceability rate
c) the apparent haemorrhage of experienced air and ground crews
See PPrune threads various
You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
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this is blown way out of proportion, just because we lost one, the MOD is twitchy, and decide to release this
in the 'REAL' world be get this on a monthly basis [ i am a Tornado Techie BTW]
we get these problems at least once a month, if not more, where we recieve a PWI, of a problem found on a jet somewhere, and the aircraft are technically 'grounded' until the suspect area is checked. usually, this is done on the night shift, so any aircraft that pass, are free to fly the next morning, no probs. We often get these, 'dented' and 'chaffed' pipe checks.
i am sure the Rimnod is no different, and this check is very 'routine', but the MOD felt the need to release this due to the problems in the press the airframe has been having
les face it, we have lost less Rimnods that Tonkas, so why dont they report every Tornado Fault?
in the 'REAL' world be get this on a monthly basis [ i am a Tornado Techie BTW]
we get these problems at least once a month, if not more, where we recieve a PWI, of a problem found on a jet somewhere, and the aircraft are technically 'grounded' until the suspect area is checked. usually, this is done on the night shift, so any aircraft that pass, are free to fly the next morning, no probs. We often get these, 'dented' and 'chaffed' pipe checks.
i am sure the Rimnod is no different, and this check is very 'routine', but the MOD felt the need to release this due to the problems in the press the airframe has been having
les face it, we have lost less Rimnods that Tonkas, so why dont they report every Tornado Fault?
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Why dont they report every Tornado Fault
Why, because no one tells the press.
Why because 14 good brave men have not been killed in one.
Why, because you haven't got people like me watching your backs.
People who lost loved ones in the Nimrod accident.
People who are prepared to tell the press when they find a problem in the same area of fuel pipe that was responsible for the explosion that killed their son.
THATS WHY
Why because 14 good brave men have not been killed in one.
Why, because you haven't got people like me watching your backs.
People who lost loved ones in the Nimrod accident.
People who are prepared to tell the press when they find a problem in the same area of fuel pipe that was responsible for the explosion that killed their son.
THATS WHY
UKMIL
Because one Nimrod out of a fleet of 20 odd (don't know the exact number) is about 5%. What would the loss of 5% of the Tornado fleet equate to in terms of numbers of aircarft ...?
The Tonka fleet has the option of a Martin Baker let down if there is a mechanical problem, there is a safety net, what can a Nimrod crew do....?
Because, unfair though it might be in terms of attracting more attention, the loss of a Nimrod results in a large loss of life. What would be the reaction if we lost a Tristar with 250 on board and it was considered that it may (and I stress may) be partly due to the age of the aircraft........?
Need I go on........
Because one Nimrod out of a fleet of 20 odd (don't know the exact number) is about 5%. What would the loss of 5% of the Tornado fleet equate to in terms of numbers of aircarft ...?
The Tonka fleet has the option of a Martin Baker let down if there is a mechanical problem, there is a safety net, what can a Nimrod crew do....?
Because, unfair though it might be in terms of attracting more attention, the loss of a Nimrod results in a large loss of life. What would be the reaction if we lost a Tristar with 250 on board and it was considered that it may (and I stress may) be partly due to the age of the aircraft........?
Need I go on........
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UKMIL
What a lot of tosh you speak, and I hope you retract your comments; they are unfounded, inaccurate and display a certain amount of total ignorance on youor part. There is absolutely no way on this earth to compare Nimrod with Tornado, other than they are bothe aircraft. As others have said, a problem with the GR4, pull the yellow and black handle. A problem with Nimrod, tick with it a fight it. Oh what a fool you are.
If you think that Nimrod ops are not the 'real world' then you are sadly mistaken. On the other hand, perhaps you could point out what 'ops' the GR4fleet are embarked on at the moment.
Tappers Dad, I knew your son, a fine boy who I know you and your family are immensly proud of, and rightly so. I apologise on behalf of UKMil, who I can assure you DOES NOT represent the views and opinions of the vast majority of us.
Kind regards to you and your family, all of the boys are still very much in ou thoughts Sir.
TSM
What a lot of tosh you speak, and I hope you retract your comments; they are unfounded, inaccurate and display a certain amount of total ignorance on youor part. There is absolutely no way on this earth to compare Nimrod with Tornado, other than they are bothe aircraft. As others have said, a problem with the GR4, pull the yellow and black handle. A problem with Nimrod, tick with it a fight it. Oh what a fool you are.
If you think that Nimrod ops are not the 'real world' then you are sadly mistaken. On the other hand, perhaps you could point out what 'ops' the GR4fleet are embarked on at the moment.
Tappers Dad, I knew your son, a fine boy who I know you and your family are immensly proud of, and rightly so. I apologise on behalf of UKMil, who I can assure you DOES NOT represent the views and opinions of the vast majority of us.
Kind regards to you and your family, all of the boys are still very much in ou thoughts Sir.
TSM
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you seem to have taken my post out of context
firstly, let say, how can i 'grow up'?? I am probably old enough for some of you 'flyboys'to be my offspring. I have over 20 years Service, as an RAF technician, over which time i have worked the Rimnod, and many other frames, which do not have the bangseat.
The post I raised, was purley to show, that these problems are very much routing [not just in the Tonka world, but in every frame i have worked on in my career]. These checks, such as the fuel pipe incident happen evey week, on EVERY aircraft we have in our inventory, but NEVER get issued to the Press. The fact the MOD has chosen to do this, is merley to try and not 'cover up' any problems that might be 'leaked' to the press about the rimnod.
firstly, let say, how can i 'grow up'?? I am probably old enough for some of you 'flyboys'to be my offspring. I have over 20 years Service, as an RAF technician, over which time i have worked the Rimnod, and many other frames, which do not have the bangseat.
The post I raised, was purley to show, that these problems are very much routing [not just in the Tonka world, but in every frame i have worked on in my career]. These checks, such as the fuel pipe incident happen evey week, on EVERY aircraft we have in our inventory, but NEVER get issued to the Press. The fact the MOD has chosen to do this, is merley to try and not 'cover up' any problems that might be 'leaked' to the press about the rimnod.
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ukmil. Time to knock it off.
Over 20 years experience and your profile says you are aged 35. I would have thought that being in the RAF since you were 15 or younger might have taught you a few things about tact and when to apply it.As for being old enough for us 'flyboys' to be your offspring; well this one is old enough to know bulls%&t when he reads it.
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UKmil you state that:
The MOD initially refused to confirm or deny this latest safety incident, the MOD only issued a statement following pressure from relatives of those lost on XV230 and from a handfull of well informed journalists.
We all have the same goal, that is to prevent there from being another 14 grieving families, now you may think that is naive but as the oldest brother of Sgt. Ben 'Tapper' Knight lost on XV230 if I can do anything to prevent someone else feeling like I do then I will move heaven and earth to do it.
Just because these problems are a daily or weekly occurance it doesn't mean that they should be accepted. I am not in the military but I have worked in some very large central goverment departments with there fair share of problems that threatened lives and I know it is very difficult to do anything from the inside. If everyone involved in the Nimrod fleet was entirely happy with the safety of the plane then they why are so many voting with their feet and requesting transfers or ground tours?
These checks, such as the fuel pipe incident happen evey week, on EVERY aircraft we have in our inventory, but NEVER get issued to the Press. The fact the MOD has chosen to do this, is merley to try and not 'cover up' any problems that might be 'leaked' to the press about the rimnod.
We all have the same goal, that is to prevent there from being another 14 grieving families, now you may think that is naive but as the oldest brother of Sgt. Ben 'Tapper' Knight lost on XV230 if I can do anything to prevent someone else feeling like I do then I will move heaven and earth to do it.
Just because these problems are a daily or weekly occurance it doesn't mean that they should be accepted. I am not in the military but I have worked in some very large central goverment departments with there fair share of problems that threatened lives and I know it is very difficult to do anything from the inside. If everyone involved in the Nimrod fleet was entirely happy with the safety of the plane then they why are so many voting with their feet and requesting transfers or ground tours?
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I think its quite right that the presss were informed this time, and if they are being grounded as often as you are saying, then why are they still in service?! Years after the new Nimrod is due I might add!!
As the daughter to one of the crew members on board the Nimrod crash in Afghanistan, I long to find out exactly what went wrong on that fatefull day. And while they may only be rumours at the moment, any little bit of information that might help me understand is greatly appreciated. Im sure Tappers Dad will agree with me. We need answers!
Charlene Bell
Flt Sgt Gez Bells Daughter
As the daughter to one of the crew members on board the Nimrod crash in Afghanistan, I long to find out exactly what went wrong on that fatefull day. And while they may only be rumours at the moment, any little bit of information that might help me understand is greatly appreciated. Im sure Tappers Dad will agree with me. We need answers!
Charlene Bell
Flt Sgt Gez Bells Daughter
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Their hands are tied
I have witnessed first hand how hard all the Linies at Kinloss work to make the Nimrods as safe as possible. The pressure the whole Nimrod fleet is and has been under is causing experienced people to PVR because they are fed up with spending half the year in the Gulf with no answer to the problem of an aircraft that is just past its sell by date.
My concern is for all those who fly in the Nimrod as I can not believe they are as safe as they should be in light of the state of the air frame and the strain put on all those involved in working on it.
In Sept 2006 I felt it was horrifying that it would take the loss of 14 men to make the higher command sit up and take notice. The fact that they have not taken action is sickening.
My concern is for all those who fly in the Nimrod as I can not believe they are as safe as they should be in light of the state of the air frame and the strain put on all those involved in working on it.
In Sept 2006 I felt it was horrifying that it would take the loss of 14 men to make the higher command sit up and take notice. The fact that they have not taken action is sickening.
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Yes Charlene I agree with you but we don't just need answers we need the TRUTH !!
I think the everyone at Kinloss is doing their best with what is a vintage aircraft. Its the MOD and the Government that needs to spend more money and resourses in order to make the Nimrod fleet "Fit for Purpose".
The RAF//MOD are responsible for my son's death and the death of all those on board. They have a Duty of Care under the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) to ensure that the safety of the Crew, this overrides the Military needs of NATO.
If the Nimrods were a civil aircraft they would have been permenently grounded !!As no-one would want to fly in them.
THE FAMILIES OF CREW 3 120 SQUADRON ARE NOT GOING AWAY AND WILL NOT BE SILENCED UNTIL THE TRUTH IS KNOWN.
I think the everyone at Kinloss is doing their best with what is a vintage aircraft. Its the MOD and the Government that needs to spend more money and resourses in order to make the Nimrod fleet "Fit for Purpose".
The RAF//MOD are responsible for my son's death and the death of all those on board. They have a Duty of Care under the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) to ensure that the safety of the Crew, this overrides the Military needs of NATO.
If the Nimrods were a civil aircraft they would have been permenently grounded !!As no-one would want to fly in them.
THE FAMILIES OF CREW 3 120 SQUADRON ARE NOT GOING AWAY AND WILL NOT BE SILENCED UNTIL THE TRUTH IS KNOWN.
Interestingly, at a meeting to discuss engineering aspects of another ex-civil airliner now being used by the military, one of the delegates announced that he'd been told by others that the Nimrod AAR gallery uses single skinned pipes.....
Is that really true?
He said that "They'd considered it an acceptable risk for a military aircraft.....25 years ago when it was installed".
Is that really true?
He said that "They'd considered it an acceptable risk for a military aircraft.....25 years ago when it was installed".
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1995 Fire on board a Nimrod
http://www.agingaircraftconference.o...8b/134_doc.pdf
Page 17 of 41
This makes interesting reading about the 1995 Fire on board a Nimrod.Stating "The fire defeated all the design redundancies that were designed to protect the aricraft".
Page 17 of 41
This makes interesting reading about the 1995 Fire on board a Nimrod.Stating "The fire defeated all the design redundancies that were designed to protect the aricraft".