Services in Turmoil, says ex-chief
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Services in Turmoil, says ex-chief
Services in turmoil, says ex-chief
Daily Telegraph - Wed 21 Feb 07
Daily Telegraph - Wed 21 Feb 07
The morale in the Armed Forces was now as bad as it had been during the last days of the Labour government of the late 1970s when pay, accommodation and equipment problems caused huge despondency.
"I do not remember the concerns of the military being so great since the last days of the Callaghan government and in those days the world was a safer place," he said.
The Services were "suffering from years of under-investment". Troops felt "undervalued and taken for granted".
Defence was chronically underfunded and no one was making the case for increased spending, he said. "Currently the sums do not add up and we will find ourselves being too weak everywhere if nothing is done."
"I do not remember the concerns of the military being so great since the last days of the Callaghan government and in those days the world was a safer place," he said.
The Services were "suffering from years of under-investment". Troops felt "undervalued and taken for granted".
Defence was chronically underfunded and no one was making the case for increased spending, he said. "Currently the sums do not add up and we will find ourselves being too weak everywhere if nothing is done."
Last edited by LFFC; 21st Feb 2007 at 17:02.
Once again an ex finding that he has dangly bits between his legs when it is to late to make a bit of difference. Well at least he did not Jeopardise his career and pension by doing his job.
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It is so frustrating to find, yet again, another very senior officer who has suddenly found the courage to speak up, now he is safely out of the service.
Things were perhaps a little better when Lord Guthrie was in post, but only marginally, and it is a shame that he didn't feel the need or requirement to speak out when he was in a position where he could have made a difference.
Sadly, his comments will join the ranks of those gone before him who were too weak to speak out for their forces whilst in post, but are now keen to be back in the spotlight, speaking up for their (ex) forces, safe in the knowledge that their pensions are secure! Shame on them all.
The Winco
Things were perhaps a little better when Lord Guthrie was in post, but only marginally, and it is a shame that he didn't feel the need or requirement to speak out when he was in a position where he could have made a difference.
Sadly, his comments will join the ranks of those gone before him who were too weak to speak out for their forces whilst in post, but are now keen to be back in the spotlight, speaking up for their (ex) forces, safe in the knowledge that their pensions are secure! Shame on them all.
The Winco
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Winco,
I would agree, but yet again it would seem as has been discussed upon other threads, it is nice to see that Sir Glen has stood up for "Light Blues".
(Or have I missed something)
I very Much doubt it, Come on Sir Glen what are your thoughts on this.
I would agree, but yet again it would seem as has been discussed upon other threads, it is nice to see that Sir Glen has stood up for "Light Blues".
(Or have I missed something)
I very Much doubt it, Come on Sir Glen what are your thoughts on this.
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I think you may be doing the ex-Chiefs an injustice in blaming them for their perceived silence. Up to now they have not been able to speak out publicly while in Service. The same applies to every serving soldier, sailor, airman regardless of rank. We do not know how hard they actually fought while in post because that information is not in the public domain.
The fact that the Army and Navy Chiefs now feel compelled to break the rules has opened up a pandora's box, because who lower down the pecking order can now be disciplined for speaking out?
That they have felt forced to do so indicates how serious the whole b*gger's muddle is (apologies to any b*ggers out there). The only logical next step for them is to resign en mass. Even that probably won't make this shower in power take any notice. We're doomed!
The fact that the Army and Navy Chiefs now feel compelled to break the rules has opened up a pandora's box, because who lower down the pecking order can now be disciplined for speaking out?
That they have felt forced to do so indicates how serious the whole b*gger's muddle is (apologies to any b*ggers out there). The only logical next step for them is to resign en mass. Even that probably won't make this shower in power take any notice. We're doomed!
Last edited by Clockwork Mouse; 21st Feb 2007 at 21:04.
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He got to be The Lord Guthrie by being a brave and outstanding soldier (check his CV) and eventually becoming Chief of the Defence Staff. This was before this shower came to power.
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I must agree with Clockwork - it's easy to pour scorn on Lord Guthrie but he was a better soldier than some posters here seem to realise. He did his duty and he made his case with the politicians. The problem is they didn't listen.
The solution is at the polls.
The solution is at the polls.
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The solution is at the end of your legs.
In the last days of the Callaghan government mentioned in that article, we were indeed treated like dirt - just as you are today. Disgusted with our treatment, I voted with my feet.
In the last days of the Callaghan government mentioned in that article, we were indeed treated like dirt - just as you are today. Disgusted with our treatment, I voted with my feet.
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Intrigued by the references to the military career of Lord Guthrie, I googled for his CV. Impressive indeed. http://www.nato.int/cv/chod/uk/guthrie.htm
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I would like to think that the various serving Chiefs are doing their job by writing regularly to Browne and Blair, airing their concerns about the way the Armed Forces are heading downhill. Naturally, this vaste amount of correspondence would be classified Restricted or above and so would not find its way into the newspapers.
Blimey, a whole flight of pigs just flew past the window.
Blimey, a whole flight of pigs just flew past the window.
Pink pigs?
If they were hobbling past the window with their wings patched up with speed tape and black bodge tape, then yes, those'd be AT pigs.
But if they went past in strength looking for something useful to do, they were probably Europorker TypHoons.
If they were hobbling past the window with their wings patched up with speed tape and black bodge tape, then yes, those'd be AT pigs.
But if they went past in strength looking for something useful to do, they were probably Europorker TypHoons.
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History Repeating (I hope)
Late 1970s, message from an AOC to his AOC in C (paraphrased from an elderly memory):
"Sir, Should the current situation continue for more than another 6 months or so, I will not be able to guarantee the operational effectiveness of my Command".
My hope, and expectation, is that similar messages have gone up through the system. I am dismayed that there is a need for such statements, but we cannot expect those statements to appear in the public domain for reasons previously given. It did my morale a great deal of good to know about that one, though.
O96
"Sir, Should the current situation continue for more than another 6 months or so, I will not be able to guarantee the operational effectiveness of my Command".
My hope, and expectation, is that similar messages have gone up through the system. I am dismayed that there is a need for such statements, but we cannot expect those statements to appear in the public domain for reasons previously given. It did my morale a great deal of good to know about that one, though.
O96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom
Blimey, a whole flight of pigs just flew past the window.
Would they be the AT versions, or the re-worked, ground attack pigs?
Originally Posted by zoom
Blimey, a whole flight of pigs just flew past the window.
Would they be the AT versions, or the re-worked, ground attack pigs?
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The US system is stronger in this regard
On the subject of Defence chiefs standing up for their services, this is where the US system is better. Since their senior officers and chiefs are largely selected from within and retain a lot more independence, they are able to 'stand up and be counted' without worrying about being shown the door.
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I think we are missing the point here. The defence chief posts are not political and these things should be aired behind closed doors. But, it is a sad endightment of this governments treatment of the three services that defence chiefs can't wait to get the uniform off and get stuck in. Just my view. Thoughts?
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On the subject of Defence chiefs standing up for their services, this is where the US system is better. Since their senior officers and chiefs are largely selected from within and retain a lot more independence, they are able to 'stand up and be counted' without worrying about being shown the door.
Do a google on former Army COS Eric Shinseki (sp?).
He testified to Congress in the months just prior to kick-off and said it would take 200K troops in place for many years.
His replacement as Army Chief of Staff was announced shortly thereafter, in the press. He was only into the 2d year of normally two 2-yr COS tenure. Then SECDEF did not attend the retirement ceremony, even though it was on the lawn outside the Pentagon.
Shown the door - US version
SeeArsee - You might want to check with General Shineski (sp) on that one.
20driver
Just saw Bricks post - I saw that bit of theatre and I think the number was 400K plus.
20driver
Just saw Bricks post - I saw that bit of theatre and I think the number was 400K plus.
