Typhoon in Las Vegas
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 1
From: firmly on dry land
Googling "Is napalm legal" produced: <<Napalm was banned by United Nations convention in 1980, but the US never signed the agreement. Use of Mark-77 fire bombs is considered legal by the US ...>>
www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145828249.html
and
The proposed reservation of the United States would revise the legal ... Incendiary agents such as napalm and phosphorus are not considered to be CW agents ...
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary-legal.htm
or
The use of firebombs “remarkably similar” to napalm is perfectly “legal”, and the use of white phosphorus as a weapon is totally “legitimate”. ...
www.yirmeyahureview.com/articles/napalm_phosphorus_iraq.htm
www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145828249.html
and
The proposed reservation of the United States would revise the legal ... Incendiary agents such as napalm and phosphorus are not considered to be CW agents ...
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary-legal.htm
or
The use of firebombs “remarkably similar” to napalm is perfectly “legal”, and the use of white phosphorus as a weapon is totally “legitimate”. ...
www.yirmeyahureview.com/articles/napalm_phosphorus_iraq.htm
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 142
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From: South West
Why does the AD Typhoon need a gun? Surely it can fire its Meteor BVRAAM shortly after taking off from Binbrooke and destroy the Russian Badger over the Norwegian coast.
Oh sorry - still in the Cold War mode. But the Meteor decision was taken well after the Cold War was ancient history so when are we going to learn?????
N Joe
Oh sorry - still in the Cold War mode. But the Meteor decision was taken well after the Cold War was ancient history so when are we going to learn?????
N Joe
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 142
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From: South West
Deliverance
I make no pretence of understanding air combat but I can't remember either:
a. The last time the RAF sent fighter (well AD) aircraft into a conflict in which we hadn't already established air superiority, or;
b. Having ROE that would allow us to use a BVRAAM.
Having worked on both an (F) sqn and an AT sqn, I know where I would spend the money if they ever let me run the RAF!
N Joe
PS The FIs were before my time - you may wish to enlighten me!
I make no pretence of understanding air combat but I can't remember either:
a. The last time the RAF sent fighter (well AD) aircraft into a conflict in which we hadn't already established air superiority, or;
b. Having ROE that would allow us to use a BVRAAM.
Having worked on both an (F) sqn and an AT sqn, I know where I would spend the money if they ever let me run the RAF!
N Joe
PS The FIs were before my time - you may wish to enlighten me!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 721
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From: Glorious Devon
"Having worked on both an (F) sqn and an AT sqn, I know where I would spend the money if they ever let me run the RAF!
N Joe"
Please God they won't. If you read some of Putin's recent speeches you would appreciate that the maintenance of an ability to secure the airspace over UK and combat forces that may threaten the UK is a primary consideration, overriding what many regard as irrelevant interventions abroad. A threat can develop in a year or two. It takes two decades to develop and produce a modern aircraft and associated weapons.
N Joe"
Please God they won't. If you read some of Putin's recent speeches you would appreciate that the maintenance of an ability to secure the airspace over UK and combat forces that may threaten the UK is a primary consideration, overriding what many regard as irrelevant interventions abroad. A threat can develop in a year or two. It takes two decades to develop and produce a modern aircraft and associated weapons.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 16,700
Likes: 54
From: Lincolnshire
N Joe,
Gulf 1990 the first AD aircraft there we F3. OK, they didn't go in to combat but there was definitely no air superiority had Saddam decided to attack.
One might deduce that their presence has the desired effect of ensuring that the Iraqi forces did not consider an expeditions further south.
Gulf 1990 the first AD aircraft there we F3. OK, they didn't go in to combat but there was definitely no air superiority had Saddam decided to attack.
One might deduce that their presence has the desired effect of ensuring that the Iraqi forces did not consider an expeditions further south.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,682
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From: Peripatetic
One might deduce that their presence has the desired effect of ensuring that the Iraqi forces did not consider an expeditions further south.
IIRC the AOC wanted to send F4s, but was overriden for political reasons as we had, of course, sold F3s to the Saudis, and needed to show confidence in them. The story was his response was along the lines of, "you seriously want to send that into a combat zone?"
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: As far away from work as possible
Added to that has the Tornado actually used its guns during any of the current conflicts that it is used in and if so was it of any use.
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: A galaxy far far away
... and by all accounts the Nav ended up with a Brown Endorsment, as the Front Gunner had neglected to inform his DC that he was going to open up. Apparently the muzzle flash is quite impressive in the dark. Much like what he imagined being shot down by a Roland is like, he told me.
Last edited by AdLib; 11th March 2007 at 20:29. Reason: Sorry, just re-read your post. This is a GR1 story.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 265
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From: Not Ardua enough
Gulf 1990 the first AD aircraft there we F3. OK, they didn't go in to combat but there was definitely no air superiority had Saddam decided to attack.
One might deduce that their presence has the desired effect of ensuring that the Iraqi forces did not consider an expeditions further south.
One might deduce that their presence has the desired effect of ensuring that the Iraqi forces did not consider an expeditions further south.
F3's demoted to CAP at night only methinks, good radar and jolly quick, but lousy in a turning fight, was the offical reason, provided by some or other Groupie who paid us a visit.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 492
Likes: 27
From: Lincoln
Thanks DownloadDog, I was just asking as I did not hear of the gun being used during the 91 Gulf War, the GR4 certainly does not need defending from my view point I know what it can/has done (except of course the gun bit).
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 142
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From: South West
Flatus
Agree with your thoughts on defending Blighty but if that were the only driver, a decent UKADGE/SAM set up would go a long way toward meeting the requirement. I know the arguments about man-in-the-loop but that and arguing the value of a BVRAAM must be mutually exclusive.
The most likely use of AD Typhoon would be to deploy to wherever next conflict arising to cruise around well above all realistic MEZs, achieving little more than a political presence.
N Joe
Agree with your thoughts on defending Blighty but if that were the only driver, a decent UKADGE/SAM set up would go a long way toward meeting the requirement. I know the arguments about man-in-the-loop but that and arguing the value of a BVRAAM must be mutually exclusive.
The most likely use of AD Typhoon would be to deploy to wherever next conflict arising to cruise around well above all realistic MEZs, achieving little more than a political presence.
N Joe
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 215
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From: uk
Air power starts and ends with control of the air. Therefore fighters with BVR missiles are quite rightly high on the shopping list for any air force.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 215
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From: uk
Deliverance
My point, old bean, in response to your marvellously condescending and patronising post, is that Air Power isn't all about control of the air. It's a doctrinally naive argument at best, but one I would expect to hear from some FJ mates who can't see past the end of their noses.
Not, of course, that I'm suggesting you're a FJ mate, you may just have received the benefits of their education...
But surely one so learned as yourself wouldn't have so narrow a viewpoint.
My point, old bean, in response to your marvellously condescending and patronising post, is that Air Power isn't all about control of the air. It's a doctrinally naive argument at best, but one I would expect to hear from some FJ mates who can't see past the end of their noses.
Not, of course, that I'm suggesting you're a FJ mate, you may just have received the benefits of their education...
But surely one so learned as yourself wouldn't have so narrow a viewpoint.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 89
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From: u.k.
Quote:
With 3sqn already stood up
Quote:
under the 3sqn umbrella until they stand up
Quote:
standing up in the air-air role
So what is all this stood up/standing up b0ll0cks all about then ? It's only beecome part of the RAF lexicon fairly recently. Has it come from the creeeping green influence ? Didn't we used to form squadrons and the like, rather than stand them up ?
S_H
With 3sqn already stood up
Quote:
under the 3sqn umbrella until they stand up
Quote:
standing up in the air-air role
So what is all this stood up/standing up b0ll0cks all about then ? It's only beecome part of the RAF lexicon fairly recently. Has it come from the creeeping green influence ? Didn't we used to form squadrons and the like, rather than stand them up ?
S_H