Whirlwind Helicopter
Avoid imitations
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That brings back memories of hovering the Mk10 in manual throttle over Holyhead harbour, during SAR training. The staff were made of stout stuff, having to put trust in their students. Looking back I can imagine how quickly it could have all gone very badly wrong.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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In the 1970s when I used to occasionally inhabit the spectators' gallery at Gatwick, one could often see a Bristow Whirlwind or two bashing the circuit at Redhill, presumably schooling Bell 47 graduates rather than ab initio students. As far as I remember from surreptitious visits to Redhill, one was piston, the other two turbines. They never seemed to fly during my visits. (A very belated Thank You Tiger Club for always letting us spotty teenagers roam your hangar which usually meant we then had tacit approval to be on what was otherwise a rather unfriendly aerodrome!)
During 1975/6, several Instructors took me on their SCTs and I was taught how to ‘fly’ a Whirlwind - minus the Take-off and landings of course! I think they must’ve had a bet that, if they could teach an LAC Rigga, they could teach anyone. For me, this was a very enjoyable experience, I must’ve done 20 hours or so… Hovering into the corners of Chetwynd.
To go through the learning experience is only stressful if you know something different or if pressure is applied to your performance. Learning any skill on any machine is a hard experience - passing your driving test is a great example.
Rigga - re. the weather vane, Norfolk coast indeed. Initially it had main rotor blades but the blade cuffs weren't man enough for North Sea gales ! ... the 'Jesus Nut', on the other hand has remained intact !.
Herod - I think we have previously mentioned co-location at Tern Hill. I was with CFS (H) from 66 to 71 (66 to 68/9 at Valley.)
Shytorque - 'computer out' with the Whirly was always ;interesting. We had a Master Pilot come to us, who had previously done a tour on the piston version. Initially, his hovering was 'variable' ... until he went 'computer out' ! He reckoned he had problems adjusting to the 'scan' without having to constantly reference the rrpm.
Herod - I think we have previously mentioned co-location at Tern Hill. I was with CFS (H) from 66 to 71 (66 to 68/9 at Valley.)
Shytorque - 'computer out' with the Whirly was always ;interesting. We had a Master Pilot come to us, who had previously done a tour on the piston version. Initially, his hovering was 'variable' ... until he went 'computer out' ! He reckoned he had problems adjusting to the 'scan' without having to constantly reference the rrpm.
Avoid imitations
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When it came to just poling the aircraft with everything working, a Whirlwind was fairly benign due to its rather sluggish response and inertia (hence the RAF requirement for basic students to fly a full sortie of solo engine off landings).
The Gnome turbine engine was “fernickerty” but normally controlled by a basic fuel flow computer. “Computer out” was more difficult because manually controlling the engine added another dimension, especially in view of the sluggish engine response. One had to anticipate the effect on the main rotor response, more so than with a piston engine. The effect is similar to “turbo lag” on a car engine.
Coupled with the lack of a cyclic trim system, and no navigation equipment apart from Decca (which was really designed for ships and very complicated to interpret at the best of times) it made the aircraft hard work to operate; the term “one armed paper hangar” was appropriate to aircraft of that generation. I still tend to naturally carry my chart or PLOG under my right arm to this day, rather than put it down in the cockpit…. old habits die hard.
The Whirlwind was being taken out of front line service early in my time. I held at an Whirlwind equipped SAR base for a few weeks in the 1970s, which was the main catalyst for my desire to fly helicopters, having been allowed to attempt to fly one, which I did, after a fashion, under the auspices of Gerry Hermer. He got me to land it, despite the antics of the ground marshaller, who threw away his bats in mock disgust
.
I still hold those SAR pilots (and their winch operators and winch men) in very high regard - single pilot, over the sea, day and night, in a totally unstable and unstabilised, underpowered single engined aircraft. I did go on to become an SAR pilot, but thankfully in far more capable helicopters.
The Gnome turbine engine was “fernickerty” but normally controlled by a basic fuel flow computer. “Computer out” was more difficult because manually controlling the engine added another dimension, especially in view of the sluggish engine response. One had to anticipate the effect on the main rotor response, more so than with a piston engine. The effect is similar to “turbo lag” on a car engine.
Coupled with the lack of a cyclic trim system, and no navigation equipment apart from Decca (which was really designed for ships and very complicated to interpret at the best of times) it made the aircraft hard work to operate; the term “one armed paper hangar” was appropriate to aircraft of that generation. I still tend to naturally carry my chart or PLOG under my right arm to this day, rather than put it down in the cockpit…. old habits die hard.
The Whirlwind was being taken out of front line service early in my time. I held at an Whirlwind equipped SAR base for a few weeks in the 1970s, which was the main catalyst for my desire to fly helicopters, having been allowed to attempt to fly one, which I did, after a fashion, under the auspices of Gerry Hermer. He got me to land it, despite the antics of the ground marshaller, who threw away his bats in mock disgust
.I still hold those SAR pilots (and their winch operators and winch men) in very high regard - single pilot, over the sea, day and night, in a totally unstable and unstabilised, underpowered single engined aircraft. I did go on to become an SAR pilot, but thankfully in far more capable helicopters.
CJ - Well, it seems you live opposite to my recent (23rd Oct 21) Son-In-Laws’s Grandad!
I saw your weather vane some months ago and have already drawn designs to make a copy! - having noted the lack of rotors I aim for a ‘representation’ of rotor blades even for my inshore location near NWI.
I was there 1975 to closure and moved to Shawbury til 1980. I believe you speak of M/Plt Alec R*****, who became the UTP for Tern Hill and Shawbury til his retirement (1978 ish).
I saw your weather vane some months ago and have already drawn designs to make a copy! - having noted the lack of rotors I aim for a ‘representation’ of rotor blades even for my inshore location near NWI.
I was there 1975 to closure and moved to Shawbury til 1980. I believe you speak of M/Plt Alec R*****, who became the UTP for Tern Hill and Shawbury til his retirement (1978 ish).
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This could be a whirlwind romance ? 
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Shy: I do not claim to be more than an average pilot, BUT I disagree with you ref Whirlwind 10. I started with 50 hours Sycamore then qualified as Helo pilot after 57 hours Whirlwind; after Sycamore I found it a delight to fly. Granted no trimmers, but if pulled or pushed to a new attitude all that was needed was to quickly move the stick to "no feeling",Disengage stick from spring loading,then back to (approximately) previous position and release Disengage button. I'm almost sure that we referred to the device as cyclic trim. Eventually clocked 690 hours, never a cough from a Gnome, tho I did have a rotor blade shed some skin at the outboard end -- thought I'd just taken flak,so Mayday and precautionary landing: the Westland rep was flown out to me and just bandaged it with insulting tape.
Since the original post referred to the naval ASW role, they might be interested in this old graphic.
The helicopter with dipping sonar was a game changer, which explains why it quickly replaced the Gannet in the carrierborne ASW role.
The helicopter with dipping sonar was a game changer, which explains why it quickly replaced the Gannet in the carrierborne ASW role.
cafesolo - You have me puzzled.! You appeared to be referring to the Whirly in the piece from "Granted no trimmers ...", but that refers to the Sycamore - my time on that goes back to Aden in the mid 50s !
Similarly little trouble with the Gnome save for one wet winching in Holyhead harbour with John Dixon (sp?) when there was a slight change of noise on the run-in and, once the lift was complete, John announced that he had had to complete the pickup 'computer out'..
Re the lack of trim on the Whirlwind, Keith "Punch-up" Panter" (as he was known) disliked the lack of 'feel' on the cyclic, so he used to wind the fore and aft and lateral frictions up to maximum when he was on shift - so he could "feel what was going on". This was at Thorney and the 'Trappers' came on their annual jaunt and their Boss decided to do some CT. The take-off and departure were 'unusual' as the Boss found out about the trims, the 'hard way'. This tale was passed on to me much later, as Keith had moved on before I was posted in.
Similarly little trouble with the Gnome save for one wet winching in Holyhead harbour with John Dixon (sp?) when there was a slight change of noise on the run-in and, once the lift was complete, John announced that he had had to complete the pickup 'computer out'..
Re the lack of trim on the Whirlwind, Keith "Punch-up" Panter" (as he was known) disliked the lack of 'feel' on the cyclic, so he used to wind the fore and aft and lateral frictions up to maximum when he was on shift - so he could "feel what was going on". This was at Thorney and the 'Trappers' came on their annual jaunt and their Boss decided to do some CT. The take-off and departure were 'unusual' as the Boss found out about the trims, the 'hard way'. This tale was passed on to me much later, as Keith had moved on before I was posted in.
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Shy: I do not claim to be more than an average pilot, BUT I disagree with you ref Whirlwind 10. I started with 50 hours Sycamore then qualified as Helo pilot after 57 hours Whirlwind; after Sycamore I found it a delight to fly. Granted no trimmers, but if pulled or pushed to a new attitude all that was needed was to quickly move the stick to "no feeling",Disengage stick from spring loading,then back to (approximately) previous position and release Disengage button. I'm almost sure that we referred to the device as cyclic trim. Eventually clocked 690 hours, never a cough from a Gnome, tho I did have a rotor blade shed some skin at the outboard end -- thought I'd just taken flak,so Mayday and precautionary landing: the Westland rep was flown out to me and just bandaged it with insulting tape.
We used to have a Sycamore parked outside 240 OCU that Taff Walker ( Mr Wessex ) had in his logbook. Red Bull still have one flying I think.
Rigga - Interesting coincidence !
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.
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That’s sweet.
Rigga - Interesting coincidence !
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.
The odd layout of our place means that your s-i-l's Grandad could be Maurice, Paul, Ernie or even Mike. If it's Mile, I made another version for him (or specifically, his wife) as a thank you for their doing shopping during lockdown.
This Mk is specifically appropriate for Mike's wife.
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Additionally, pic
https://www.flickr.com/photos/egwu/20165316156
latest on them and what looks like an excellent rebuild this year. Lots of pics.
https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/for...c.php?t=203561
https://www.flickr.com/photos/egwu/20165316156
latest on them and what looks like an excellent rebuild this year. Lots of pics.
https://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/for...c.php?t=203561
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I well remember my SAR FHT at Valley during which Bill Mceakern (Sp?) had me doing computer out downwind decks on the MCU Pinnace. Still trying to unlock my left hand!
Now there's a name from the distant past. Bill, Tim Carbis, Chick Witten-Hayden, Lofty Marshall and a guy whose name I'm trying to trawl from deep memory were amongst the RAF rotary wing GREATS. It was by their efforts and achievements that helicopters went from 'stay away - career bad' to the place to be in the space of a decade.
Old Duffer
Old Duffer
DD in the 'oggin 'off Changi. My view from the launch after being winched aboard.
aa62- sent you a PM...?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Bill McEachern did my Valley training, and Chick Witten-Hayden did my FHT on the Whirlwind at the end of the Tern Hill course. The FHT was 19th Oct '66. The aircraft, XP 345 is still about I believe, in the museum at Flixton. Memories.