St Elmo's Fire
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St Elmo's Fire
Hi. I'm working for the BBC on a new series on natural phenomena. One of the things that we're keen to film is St Elmo's Fire. I gather you military pilots are the best people to talk to about it as you get it on your nose cones etc. when flying through electrical storms (a weird electrical blue glow and sparks). I've seen a bit of home footage on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sA-Hk_jnPg&eurl=), and have even heard that if you put your hand to the window it acts a bit like a plasma ball. I think we could get some fantastic images of it with professional High-Def cameras.
What I'm keen to know at the moment is how common is it? How many people have seen it - is it pretty much every time you go through a big storm or is it pretty rare?
Any information would be fantastic!
Thanks!
Alex ([email protected])
What I'm keen to know at the moment is how common is it? How many people have seen it - is it pretty much every time you go through a big storm or is it pretty rare?
Any information would be fantastic!
Thanks!
Alex ([email protected])
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Alex to be honest i doubt there are many guys out there that will have seen St Elmos fire. We tend to avoid storms for the simple fact that they are dangerous. I hope this helps.
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It is as you describe it, but I have only seen it driving airlines. A Herc mate reckoned it was quite common in their world, as they can't outclimb most CB's
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Seconded - a stude on the RNEFTS course after me got the Martin-Baker let-down after getting caught in a violent cu-nimb. He landed in Farmer Giles' meadow, while his QFI landed in the slurry pit.
St Elmo's fire
As the others have said usually the appearance of the phenomenon was the trigger for "let's get away from it - asap". On a Nimrod it would appear on the AAR probe and on the wiper brackets and, oddly, as a slowly rotating "halo" on the intakes. It was also accompanied by rising static levels on HF and UHF radios as we tiptoed away wincing in anticipation of the lightning strike which often followed. Now THAT was a real attention getter. HTH.
The Ancient Mariner
PS. I seem to remember the explanation was that it concentrated on "conductors where the radius of curvature was smallest". (but I could be wrong)
The Ancient Mariner
PS. I seem to remember the explanation was that it concentrated on "conductors where the radius of curvature was smallest". (but I could be wrong)
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Alex,
I've seen St Elmo's fire just once, in thirty years of flying for a living. It was when I flew RAF Puma helicopters. It was raining, under a CB cloud, in transit at about 1500 feet, on a very dark night in Denmark in the early 1980s. We were taking part in a special forces exercise.
Myself and the pilot in the other seat first noticed small bluish-white dots moving left/right/left across our windscreens. These turned out to be electrical discharges from the nuts holding on the wiper blades assemblies to the wiper arms. The light dots spread out and got larger until they looked similar to the picture painted on a radar screen, but still fluorescent blue. We quickly realised it was something to do with the pattern of the water film on the glass as it was scraped by the wipers. It was bright, enough to affect our night vision.
Very frightening as we thought we were about to be struck by lightning.
Thanfully, we weren't.
I've seen St Elmo's fire just once, in thirty years of flying for a living. It was when I flew RAF Puma helicopters. It was raining, under a CB cloud, in transit at about 1500 feet, on a very dark night in Denmark in the early 1980s. We were taking part in a special forces exercise.
Myself and the pilot in the other seat first noticed small bluish-white dots moving left/right/left across our windscreens. These turned out to be electrical discharges from the nuts holding on the wiper blades assemblies to the wiper arms. The light dots spread out and got larger until they looked similar to the picture painted on a radar screen, but still fluorescent blue. We quickly realised it was something to do with the pattern of the water film on the glass as it was scraped by the wipers. It was bright, enough to affect our night vision.
Very frightening as we thought we were about to be struck by lightning.
Thanfully, we weren't.
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I've seen St Elmo's fire 2 or 3 times on Nimrods. Flying at night in proximity to CB's. Blue balls on the 4A fuel tanks and 'dancing' static along the leading edge. The pilots called it on the probe too. As Rossian stated, there was a large amount of static on the V/UHF radios. I let go of the metal handle on the beam window, despite what I'm told of faraday cages!!
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Alex,
Seen it only a couple of times, both in a C130K which had the AAR probe fitted. The first time it started with arcing & sparking around the wipers, then a large plume formed on the end of the probe, at its largest it was about 4 feet across! Quite impressive to see, but as we were about to (inadvertantly) enter a CB, not something I would particularly wish to repeat for the benefit of the cameras.
The second was similar but without the large plume, although we had arcing on the prop tips as well. That time we were flying between CBs - we were on a medevac & had to fly low to keep the cabin altitude low for the benefit of the patient so we had to weave through the weather.
Bottom line is that the phenomenon is very rare & we usually do our best to avoid close proximity with CBs, especially at night where it's harder to avoid them visually & when they look more dangerous because you can see the lightning flashing inside them. You could try the Americans, they have aircraft that chase storms for met research purposes though mostly by day I think so not ideal for filming. Good luck!
Seen it only a couple of times, both in a C130K which had the AAR probe fitted. The first time it started with arcing & sparking around the wipers, then a large plume formed on the end of the probe, at its largest it was about 4 feet across! Quite impressive to see, but as we were about to (inadvertantly) enter a CB, not something I would particularly wish to repeat for the benefit of the cameras.
The second was similar but without the large plume, although we had arcing on the prop tips as well. That time we were flying between CBs - we were on a medevac & had to fly low to keep the cabin altitude low for the benefit of the patient so we had to weave through the weather.
Bottom line is that the phenomenon is very rare & we usually do our best to avoid close proximity with CBs, especially at night where it's harder to avoid them visually & when they look more dangerous because you can see the lightning flashing inside them. You could try the Americans, they have aircraft that chase storms for met research purposes though mostly by day I think so not ideal for filming. Good luck!
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1990, Op Granby, Tornado GR1.
Returning from a very dark night TF training sortie with a busted radar, we were vectored at 15k into a lively cb by Saudi ATC. Not to recommended. We lost all comms to static and during the turnabout to exit asap the inside of the cockpit started glowing a bluey-purple colour. All of the cockpit & avionics panels eventually had this glow with arcing occuring between the TV-Tabs and canopy arch. Very eerie and it made one very afraid to touch anything.
As soon as we left the cb all returned back to normal and I've never seen it since.
Returning from a very dark night TF training sortie with a busted radar, we were vectored at 15k into a lively cb by Saudi ATC. Not to recommended. We lost all comms to static and during the turnabout to exit asap the inside of the cockpit started glowing a bluey-purple colour. All of the cockpit & avionics panels eventually had this glow with arcing occuring between the TV-Tabs and canopy arch. Very eerie and it made one very afraid to touch anything.
As soon as we left the cb all returned back to normal and I've never seen it since.
Never a comfy feeling!
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Touche', Ratty! 
Have seen it literally dozens of times in Herks - typically starts on the wipers & may be blue, green, or even red in colour, but blue is by far the most common (of course, on NVGs, it's all green!
)
We have static strips on the nose of our MC-130H - look a bit like zippers - often see streaks of it along there long before anywhere else since they installed those (last 4-5 years for the new radomes).
Have had the good fortune to not be struck by lightning after experiencing St. Elmo's Fire (knock wood) and have seen it not associated with CBs - ie. in the clear or just stratus clouds, but rare - usually CBs are near.
Have seen it dance on the tips of the pitot tubes, prop spinners, & have it make very symmetrical lines along the windscreen repeatedly (like veins of a leaf), but mainly on the wipers (and nose for the MC-130H).
As stated, nearly always accompanied by static on radios.
Typically, we'll try to change level or course if it persists longer than a couple minutes as it has been documented to precede lightning strikes.
Have heard stories of "ball lightning" entering the cabin & rolling through the cargo compartment - this from a much older C-141 mate.
Have seen it literally dozens of times in Herks - typically starts on the wipers & may be blue, green, or even red in colour, but blue is by far the most common (of course, on NVGs, it's all green!
)We have static strips on the nose of our MC-130H - look a bit like zippers - often see streaks of it along there long before anywhere else since they installed those (last 4-5 years for the new radomes).
Have had the good fortune to not be struck by lightning after experiencing St. Elmo's Fire (knock wood) and have seen it not associated with CBs - ie. in the clear or just stratus clouds, but rare - usually CBs are near.
Have seen it dance on the tips of the pitot tubes, prop spinners, & have it make very symmetrical lines along the windscreen repeatedly (like veins of a leaf), but mainly on the wipers (and nose for the MC-130H).
As stated, nearly always accompanied by static on radios.
Typically, we'll try to change level or course if it persists longer than a couple minutes as it has been documented to precede lightning strikes.
Have heard stories of "ball lightning" entering the cabin & rolling through the cargo compartment - this from a much older C-141 mate.
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Am ex military and civil:
Long haul airliners in the tropics will experience this phenomenon more and longer than any other operations. Suggest, if you want pics, contact your friendly BA or whatever.
Long haul airliners in the tropics will experience this phenomenon more and longer than any other operations. Suggest, if you want pics, contact your friendly BA or whatever.
Have you tried contacting the Met Office? They used to have a Meteorological Flt that used a C-130 although that has been replaced by a BAe-146 http://www.faam.ac.uk/
They would most likely have done the whole deliberate flying through storms thing rather than everyday sqn pilots who tend to like living and so avoid that sort of thing like the plague.
The USAF also has various met research ac, not sure of details at this late hour, but you could try them as well.
They would most likely have done the whole deliberate flying through storms thing rather than everyday sqn pilots who tend to like living and so avoid that sort of thing like the plague.
The USAF also has various met research ac, not sure of details at this late hour, but you could try them as well.
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Adriatic, 1993.
Flying out of Italy during Op Deny Flight, we regularly flew thru some very big clouds en-route to Bosnia. The thunderstorms in the Adriatic can be real doozies (if that's how you spell it?).
One memorable night-time sortie I watched St Elmos Fire creep down the nose cone twds the cockpit and also down the inboard pylons and along the 'winder (!!!!). There was some in-cockpit discussion about the effects of said electrical phenomenon on the performance of the AIM 9L IR missile, but we came to no real conclusion and carried on anyway!
ps. I'm not sure if anyone else has said this, but even tho it was somewhat uncomfortable, it was also eerily beautiful. Like an electrical version of watching ice form and grow.
Flying out of Italy during Op Deny Flight, we regularly flew thru some very big clouds en-route to Bosnia. The thunderstorms in the Adriatic can be real doozies (if that's how you spell it?).
One memorable night-time sortie I watched St Elmos Fire creep down the nose cone twds the cockpit and also down the inboard pylons and along the 'winder (!!!!). There was some in-cockpit discussion about the effects of said electrical phenomenon on the performance of the AIM 9L IR missile, but we came to no real conclusion and carried on anyway!
ps. I'm not sure if anyone else has said this, but even tho it was somewhat uncomfortable, it was also eerily beautiful. Like an electrical version of watching ice form and grow.
Last edited by threepointonefour; 18th Feb 2007 at 23:14.
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Have seen it about 2-3 times in the mighty TriMotor crossing the ITCZ en route to Ascension.
Looked like the windshield turned into one of those plasma balls with purple "Lightning" effects all over it. Seemed to pulse, possibly due to the heating elements embedded in the panes.
Scared me witless when I first saw it Didn't feel alot better about it when I saw it again!
Looked like the windshield turned into one of those plasma balls with purple "Lightning" effects all over it. Seemed to pulse, possibly due to the heating elements embedded in the panes.
Scared me witless when I first saw it
Didn't feel alot better about it when I saw it again!
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"The appearance of St. Elmo's Fire was regarded as a good omen to sailors, it tended to occur in the dissipating stages of severe thunderstorms when the most violent surface winds and seas were abating. Thus, it was interpreted as the answer to the sailors' prayers for heavenly intervention as their patron saint Elmo had come to watch over them and see them safely through the storm."
I've seen 2 really good displays in the last year whilst flying B777s through the ITCZ in Africa. On one occasion we avoided the green returns on our radar by about 40nm which fortunately resulted in a smooth ride. However, we still had the most fantastic display of St. Elmo's Fire on the front windscreens. It lasted about 5 minutes with constant flashes of blue branch-like discharges at its most active. Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera with me.
I love watching St. Elmo's Fire and we often invite the cabin crew up to the flight deck to watch these displays.
I've seen 2 really good displays in the last year whilst flying B777s through the ITCZ in Africa. On one occasion we avoided the green returns on our radar by about 40nm which fortunately resulted in a smooth ride. However, we still had the most fantastic display of St. Elmo's Fire on the front windscreens. It lasted about 5 minutes with constant flashes of blue branch-like discharges at its most active. Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera with me.
I love watching St. Elmo's Fire and we often invite the cabin crew up to the flight deck to watch these displays.
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Thanks!
Thanks for all your replies so far. It sounds as if contacting the US Hurricane Hunters is probably the best way to try to get myself and cameraman up into a storm. The descriptions are wonderful, so thank you for everyone who has posted or contacted me so far. It really helps us plan if we know roughly what to expect - and if we've only got a few minutes to film then planning's vital!
False Capture - thanks for your description. Sounds like you're in a particularly good place to see it (maybe we'll head to Africa - it is a lightning hotspot apparently). Can you give me any indications of roughly how frequently electrical storms give good displays, or hints as to how to tell if one will? Is it pretty much a case of 'fly into one and you'll see it', or is it much rarer than that?
Thanks again everyone - I hope we can capture this phenomenon safely on camera to let everyone enjoy it from their sofas!
Alex
False Capture - thanks for your description. Sounds like you're in a particularly good place to see it (maybe we'll head to Africa - it is a lightning hotspot apparently). Can you give me any indications of roughly how frequently electrical storms give good displays, or hints as to how to tell if one will? Is it pretty much a case of 'fly into one and you'll see it', or is it much rarer than that?
Thanks again everyone - I hope we can capture this phenomenon safely on camera to let everyone enjoy it from their sofas!
Alex
