Prefix to name and associated rank
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Prefix to name and associated rank
Having graduated from university and started the 8 month application process to the RAF, I worked part-time in an outbound call-centre for charities.
One day I called a client/supporter whose name prefix was Wing Commander rather than simply Mr or Dr......and this made me curious as to whether commissioned ranks changed their prefix (if thats the right term?) on all their details as, for example a doctor would do?
Thus...would e.g. a flight lieutenant be addressed as such by their bank, and would their credit card have 'F/L ......' rather than Mr.....?
One day I called a client/supporter whose name prefix was Wing Commander rather than simply Mr or Dr......and this made me curious as to whether commissioned ranks changed their prefix (if thats the right term?) on all their details as, for example a doctor would do?
Thus...would e.g. a flight lieutenant be addressed as such by their bank, and would their credit card have 'F/L ......' rather than Mr.....?
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It is often the case that retired servicemen, usually of senior officer status, are entitled and often like to use their acquired rank instead of Mr or Mrs.
In my experience its more of an Army thing than any other service, however I am sure you get the odd one who just cannot let go.
In my experience its more of an Army thing than any other service, however I am sure you get the odd one who just cannot let go.
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Bridge, that used to be the case in the 60s, one would use one's rank in correspondence and in reply the letter would be properly addressed thus;
Flight Lieutenant Richard Brown, RAF etc.
But in those more formal days letters were also written to R Brown, esq and to Messrs Brown and Sons, all forms that have withered away.
The change in the military arose because to the IRA problems and advice to tone down one's military appearance. This happened long before we were required not to wear uniform in public; that came after a number of highly visible murders.
This change also extends to Wg Cdr Dick Brown, RAF Rtd. Dick may not like it but it is done in his best interests.
In the broadsheets you will see letters from Dickie Brown, Lt Col Rtd, but this is usually done to lend professional credence to the author.
You Sir, will be Mr Bridge at least until you reach Flight Lieutenant!
Jambo, we crosed. You will see I also cited army and broadsheet together
Flight Lieutenant Richard Brown, RAF etc.
But in those more formal days letters were also written to R Brown, esq and to Messrs Brown and Sons, all forms that have withered away.
The change in the military arose because to the IRA problems and advice to tone down one's military appearance. This happened long before we were required not to wear uniform in public; that came after a number of highly visible murders.
This change also extends to Wg Cdr Dick Brown, RAF Rtd. Dick may not like it but it is done in his best interests.
In the broadsheets you will see letters from Dickie Brown, Lt Col Rtd, but this is usually done to lend professional credence to the author.
You Sir, will be Mr Bridge at least until you reach Flight Lieutenant!
Jambo, we crosed. You will see I also cited army and broadsheet together
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Prefix to name and associated rank
Bridge23
By and large in law you are free to call yourself whatever you want save for those registered professional titles such as Medical Doctor, Chartered Engineer, Chartered Accountant, Solicitor etc. In the military, some use their rank as a normal title of address as is their privilege. Those who do are small in number and I believe normal service convention applies the privilege to sqn ldr and above (stand to be corrected by anyone with copy of Debrett's). Some people may think it is a bit affected to use your service title but others may argue they have a pride in their Service and achievement. Of course security and privacy consideratins may also influence the decision. It's a colourful world the sadder if we were all the same! Anyway where would we be without an old boy called "The Major" or the "Wing Commander" in every episode of Miss Marple or Poiret.
johnny99
By and large in law you are free to call yourself whatever you want save for those registered professional titles such as Medical Doctor, Chartered Engineer, Chartered Accountant, Solicitor etc. In the military, some use their rank as a normal title of address as is their privilege. Those who do are small in number and I believe normal service convention applies the privilege to sqn ldr and above (stand to be corrected by anyone with copy of Debrett's). Some people may think it is a bit affected to use your service title but others may argue they have a pride in their Service and achievement. Of course security and privacy consideratins may also influence the decision. It's a colourful world the sadder if we were all the same! Anyway where would we be without an old boy called "The Major" or the "Wing Commander" in every episode of Miss Marple or Poiret.
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Johnny I was always told that use of military rank by retired officers was flight lieutenant in the RAF, commander in the RN and major in the army.
It caused a bit of a stir when a mere captain styled himself as Captain Mark Philips.
I suspect these ranks arise because lieutenant commanders drop the lieutenant bit and army officers get an honourary majority when they retire. The flight lieutenant, OTOH, does not get the automatic promotion that occurs in the other services.
At least that is what I was told.
As an aside, a collection of lieutenant commanders with a similar rank as boss were all Claude, Clive etc and SIR. A lieutenant colonel as boss is known as Colonel Bob.
It caused a bit of a stir when a mere captain styled himself as Captain Mark Philips.
I suspect these ranks arise because lieutenant commanders drop the lieutenant bit and army officers get an honourary majority when they retire. The flight lieutenant, OTOH, does not get the automatic promotion that occurs in the other services.
At least that is what I was told.
As an aside, a collection of lieutenant commanders with a similar rank as boss were all Claude, Clive etc and SIR. A lieutenant colonel as boss is known as Colonel Bob.
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On retiring from his civvy job aged 60 my father moved back to village where we'd lived until I was 18. He styled himself Mr Artist on his cheques etc, but most of the village (large ex-Service contingent) insisted on calling him Captain Artist, RN Rtd. Those who clearly had a copy of the London Gazette or the Navy List would put in his CBE as well, which he was even more reticent about.
Not forgetting that post WW2 lots of people left the military with quite junior substantive ranks who had held much higher acting ranks. My FiL was an acting Major shortly after he made substantive Lt.
Not forgetting that post WW2 lots of people left the military with quite junior substantive ranks who had held much higher acting ranks. My FiL was an acting Major shortly after he made substantive Lt.
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Some do get carried away, I have known a Merchant Marine Captain, not only retain the rank but insist that all and sundry, including their offspring address him as Captain.
Last edited by Flame Out; 8th Feb 2007 at 18:23.
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Flame - So whats wrong with the guy treating his kids like any other junior rank???
Blighters!
Blighters!
Understood it to be Honorary Title for Senior Officers only, ie Sqn Ldr, Major, Lt Cdr and above.
Unless of course you are a wet ex Army Captain once married to a royal!!
Doc C
Unless of course you are a wet ex Army Captain once married to a royal!!
Doc C
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My father-in-law retired from the RAF as a Sqn. Ldr. around about 1985 (he was OC Appretices at Cosford when I was a brat there, so there was a time when I had to call him Sir 
). He used his rank in correspondence, cheque book etc. all the time when he first retired, but after a time he stopped it. I asked him why and he said on reflection he felt it was a bit affected.
Jambo Jet - is it just co-incidence or is there another supporter of Edinburgh's finest in the south west?
). He used his rank in correspondence, cheque book etc. all the time when he first retired, but after a time he stopped it. I asked him why and he said on reflection he felt it was a bit affected.Jambo Jet - is it just co-incidence or is there another supporter of Edinburgh's finest in the south west?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
FlameOut, you raise an interesting point.
Navy Captains have always been styled Captain. Remember Captn Baines in the Onidin Line?
Our local harbour master is Captain. The Trinity House inspector was Commander and lately Captain.
To get a merchant command is as a result of passing rigorous commercial exams and then gaining an appointment. It is quite possible to have ones ticket but not get a command.
More interesting though, does Captain Speaking expect to be called Captain when in his local in Houndslow?
Navy Captains have always been styled Captain. Remember Captn Baines in the Onidin Line?
Our local harbour master is Captain. The Trinity House inspector was Commander and lately Captain.
To get a merchant command is as a result of passing rigorous commercial exams and then gaining an appointment. It is quite possible to have ones ticket but not get a command.
More interesting though, does Captain Speaking expect to be called Captain when in his local in Houndslow?
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Dr Cruces is correct. Officers of "field" rank in the three services are, on retirement, entitled to use their previous rank. Mark Phillips is an affected dimwhit who isn't entitled to use his.
3P (a retired Field rank officer who doesn't use his..anymore!)
3P (a retired Field rank officer who doesn't use his..anymore!)
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Anyway where would we be without an old boy called "The Major" or the "Wing Commander" in every episode of Miss Marple or Poiret
This is a subject of keen interest to me as I've met, in the last few weeks, more RAF officers than I've ever met previously. I've never been quite sure how to address them - "Hello, Wing Commander Bloggs" is presumably correct but does sound a bit Miss Marple coming out of my puny civilian mouth.
Phil
Phil
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"FlameOut, you raise an interesting point.
Navy Captains have always been styled Captain. Remember Captn Baines in the Onidin Line?
Our local harbour master is Captain. The Trinity House inspector was Commander and lately Captain.
To get a merchant command is as a result of passing rigorous commercial exams and then gaining an appointment. It is quite possible to have ones ticket but not get a command.
More interesting though, does Captain Speaking expect to be called Captain when in his local in Houndslow?"
The Cap'n should, of course, say what sort he is: eg:
Captain Blowhard, RN, if of the Andrew;
or
Captain Birdseye, Master Mariner, if Merchant.
A normal Merchant chap, in an actual on the water sailing job, hauling cargo, "in the trade," the kind of chap you might meet in your local, is more likely to have Fred Bloggs, Master Mariner, on his business card.
Navy Captains have always been styled Captain. Remember Captn Baines in the Onidin Line?
Our local harbour master is Captain. The Trinity House inspector was Commander and lately Captain.
To get a merchant command is as a result of passing rigorous commercial exams and then gaining an appointment. It is quite possible to have ones ticket but not get a command.
More interesting though, does Captain Speaking expect to be called Captain when in his local in Houndslow?"
The Cap'n should, of course, say what sort he is: eg:
Captain Blowhard, RN, if of the Andrew;
or
Captain Birdseye, Master Mariner, if Merchant.
A normal Merchant chap, in an actual on the water sailing job, hauling cargo, "in the trade," the kind of chap you might meet in your local, is more likely to have Fred Bloggs, Master Mariner, on his business card.
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As you were, didn't explain myself completely. The Merchant Marine Captain in question was retired, some twenty years and still insisting that he should be addressed as Captain, wouldn't reply to you as less you did so. We didn't speak much, as you can guess.
Sorry for the confusion
its the pills
Sorry for the confusion
its the pills
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There was an interesting, and very lively, discussion on this subject in this forum some time last year, I think--"Using ex-Service Ranks" or similar.
Concensus seemed to be that, if the ex-officer was indeed retiring from all employment, fair enough--let him use the title.
If OTOH he was seeking civilian employment, he had better forget it as it cuts no ice whatsoever.
Concensus seemed to be that, if the ex-officer was indeed retiring from all employment, fair enough--let him use the title.
If OTOH he was seeking civilian employment, he had better forget it as it cuts no ice whatsoever.
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"As you were, didn't explain myself completely. The Merchant Marine Captain in question was retired, some twenty years and still insisting that he should be addressed as Captain, wouldn't reply to you as less you did so. We didn't speak much, as you can guess.
Sorry for the confusion its the pills"
Ah! Birdseye probably wore a commodres uniform on board! If in cargo he would have been a total Wally! Prat! 
Only those driving pax boats are usually required, by company image droids, to wear rigs of some sort
Masters of vessels that are, "in the trade," have been known to wear baggy trousers and a sweaty shirt of some sort. Some have worn bandanas and some flat bunnets! They tend not to act as you describe. All act like normal humans, 'specially if threatened with, "what's yours?"
By the way, keep taking the Pils!
Sorry for the confusion its the pills"
Ah! Birdseye probably wore a commodres uniform on board! If in cargo he would have been a total Wally! Prat!
Only those driving pax boats are usually required, by company image droids, to wear rigs of some sort
Masters of vessels that are, "in the trade," have been known to wear baggy trousers and a sweaty shirt of some sort. Some have worn bandanas and some flat bunnets! They tend not to act as you describe. All act like normal humans, 'specially if threatened with, "what's yours?"
By the way, keep taking the Pils!