Low Flying Complaints
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Low Flying Complaints
I notice with some interest, in the latest edition of the RAF news, that the section of the RAF Police that deal/investigate low flying complaints are having a reunion meal in the near future. Anyone want the grid?!
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QFIhawkman, agree. I have a very old copy of an investigation raised at the instigation of our local MP, now a very senior parliamentarian. I know some of the principal witnesses or their descendants (I did say it was an old report).
The report is extremely well written and reaches an apparently unquestionable conclusion that there was no question of indiscipline or unnecessary low flying. An airman doing the same investigation would have asked other questions!
A more recent investigation also found for the aircrew. Once we had the report we made sure the rules fitted the conclusions as there were obvious unasked questions.
Indeed the investigation team works hard to show that indisciplined low flying is a rarity.
The report is extremely well written and reaches an apparently unquestionable conclusion that there was no question of indiscipline or unnecessary low flying. An airman doing the same investigation would have asked other questions!
A more recent investigation also found for the aircrew. Once we had the report we made sure the rules fitted the conclusions as there were obvious unasked questions.
Indeed the investigation team works hard to show that indisciplined low flying is a rarity.
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Low Flying Complaints
Certainly there was "Out to Get them" attitude 30 years ago. I was subject of a series of low flying complaints and was taken round the relevant area under some form of 'arrest' while the case was investigated and witnesses were interviewed. One witness said that I had been flying at twice the height of some local trees and that my height was estimated as around 400ft (in an LFA). Not much credibity there. Another witness made a harmless non-committal statement and when I had the opportunity to question him, acting on some information that had come to hand, I asked him if he had been offered any threat or inducement to make his statement which by the way, was about 100 words and had taken 90 minutes to get.
"Oh yes, I was told that if I didn't tell them everything I knew I would be in trouble myself"! I finished up having a sit-down interview with the AOC, with coffee and biscuits, and as I was 37 and he was 54 we spent some time discussing our retirement plans! Very civil and very civilised.
"Oh yes, I was told that if I didn't tell them everything I knew I would be in trouble myself"! I finished up having a sit-down interview with the AOC, with coffee and biscuits, and as I was 37 and he was 54 we spent some time discussing our retirement plans! Very civil and very civilised.
I have been investigated by RAF LF complaints cell more times than I care to remember 1 occasion I cocked up and the rest std complaints. On all occasions the RAF Police were thoroughly professional and if anything pro-aircrew, and willing to go the extra mile to get you out of the dwang. Utmost respect only need grid ref for a thank you flypast!!!
Ivor
Ivor
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I was interviewed many years back. Went along the lines of can you recall your sortie of 23 Apr (about 3 months prior)l answer: no. It was in the auth sheets for IWEX 68 - no. Callsign was lion 1-4 -no. It was in the Vale of Pickering at about 0900 - Now it's coming back!!!! I explained what we'd been doing and he said "ok- write this down: The sortie was fully briefed and authorised in accordance with the rules....."
Good bunch of guys if you were straight with them.
Good bunch of guys if you were straight with them.
Avoid imitations
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I would also like to say what a great bunch of blokes they were in my time. But I can't. 
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sorry to intrude, as im only civillian
I live in a Lincolnshire market town, that has RAF Wittering,Cottesmore and Conningsby close by.
I like it when i see fast jets on low level sorties, i can't believe the amount of people that bitch about it.
Personally i look upon it as taxpayers ££££ well spent on keeping one of the worlds best airforces in peak ready condition.
i've seen one guy get his mobile phone out and start calling directory enquiries for relevant numbers because 2 Tornado's at low level went by, and it put him off his golf swing
Unfortunatly when your faced with people like these, there will always be complaints which is unfortunate.....but sadly true!!
I like it when i see fast jets on low level sorties, i can't believe the amount of people that bitch about it.
Personally i look upon it as taxpayers ££££ well spent on keeping one of the worlds best airforces in peak ready condition.
i've seen one guy get his mobile phone out and start calling directory enquiries for relevant numbers because 2 Tornado's at low level went by, and it put him off his golf swing
Unfortunatly when your faced with people like these, there will always be complaints which is unfortunate.....but sadly true!!
They had a difficult job balancing PR with looking after the interests of the service. During three investigations,the only time I felt intimidated by them was when an expensive racehorse allegedly died due to my low flying. The complainer was a vociferous and regular complainer with the backing of her MP and they were under some pressure to get a result.
Luckily, it was disproved when the radar trace from the nearby airfield (from which I was getting a letdown) showed I was at FL60 at the time!
Luckily, it was disproved when the radar trace from the nearby airfield (from which I was getting a letdown) showed I was at FL60 at the time!
Yes, Him
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Racehorse owner down the road from me is a regular complainent about the "Army helicopters" frightening her nags. Funny old thing, they aren't frightened by the JetRanger that lands in her paddock quite frequently to ferry her to racecourses.
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Ali Barber,
I used to be a middle man.
We would get the standard search request - was one of your ... flying near ... at ...
A search through the previous month's flypro would turn up 2 or 3 suspects. Quick look at the take-off time and distance to incident and that might reject one or all.
Bell to the sqn, check the sheets, wrong area and another would be struck out.
May be one crew still in the frame. Speak with crew, where were you and what were you doing. Invariably the crew would come up with an exact time and location that showed they were not the relevant crew.
Nil return submitted and end of story.
On one exercise there was a night air-miss. The miss was so close that a cabin window of an executive light aircraft was succed out. Through the loops and found one crew who said: "It wasn't us but we observed a GR1 that we were chasing fly very close to a stranger at . . . "
I used to be a middle man.
We would get the standard search request - was one of your ... flying near ... at ...
A search through the previous month's flypro would turn up 2 or 3 suspects. Quick look at the take-off time and distance to incident and that might reject one or all.
Bell to the sqn, check the sheets, wrong area and another would be struck out.
May be one crew still in the frame. Speak with crew, where were you and what were you doing. Invariably the crew would come up with an exact time and location that showed they were not the relevant crew.
Nil return submitted and end of story.
On one exercise there was a night air-miss. The miss was so close that a cabin window of an executive light aircraft was succed out. Through the loops and found one crew who said: "It wasn't us but we observed a GR1 that we were chasing fly very close to a stranger at . . . "
Professional Student
Speaking as a civilian; I have a complaint about UK mil low flying…..
There’s not enough of it around my house, and sometimes you don’t fly low enough! More please!
There’s not enough of it around my house, and sometimes you don’t fly low enough! More please!
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This guy knew how to upset people by flying low, it was reported that he lost his wings for this one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLPC-4Mj3N8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLPC-4Mj3N8
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Over open country side there should be no problem as long as the rules are adhered to. However when you have mil aircraft especially FJ regularly overflying known airfields then even the flying community will complain. I cannot comprehend the navigational requirements at those speeds low level but that is what you plan and train for so can any one tell us how it can happen and how you try to ensure you learn from complaints?
Living as I do at SJ 328150, I don't believe the RAF has any fast jets at all. I'd only believe it if one or more passed SJ 328150 every day for a fortnight. Anyway, I bet none of them could find their way to SJ 328150 in the first place. The fact is that SJ 328150 is enormously difficult to find, and would tax the nav kit in any current RAF FJ. And helicopter.
No, SJ 328150 is absolutely impossible for any RAF aircraft to find. The last one I saw was the Valley weather-ship about ten years ago and he was about ten miles away.
Of course, if anyone wanted a challenge, it's in LFA9 and Shawbury LL is on 376.675. But SJ 328150 is incredibly demanding for modern nav kit. The UTM is 30U 500225 5842050 but that's completely impossible.
No, SJ 328150 is absolutely impossible for any RAF aircraft to find. The last one I saw was the Valley weather-ship about ten years ago and he was about ten miles away.
Of course, if anyone wanted a challenge, it's in LFA9 and Shawbury LL is on 376.675. But SJ 328150 is incredibly demanding for modern nav kit. The UTM is 30U 500225 5842050 but that's completely impossible.
>Sorry ACW 599 - where did you say you lived again?<
I live at SJ 328150. Or 30U 500225 5842050. Or N52 43.7 W002 59.74. But this location is utterly impossible to find from any military aircraft. I'd love to be able to put up a photograph on PPRruNe of a military aeroplane passing this location, but it will never happen.
I live at SJ 328150. Or 30U 500225 5842050. Or N52 43.7 W002 59.74. But this location is utterly impossible to find from any military aircraft. I'd love to be able to put up a photograph on PPRruNe of a military aeroplane passing this location, but it will never happen.