Married Quarters rent at market Prices?

[3winged]

I heard a very nasty rumour that someone, with apparently no brains at all, is considering charging us market prices to rent married/families accomodation. If this is the case, I believe it will be the final nail in the coffin and the straw that literally breaks the camels back.

I have remained loyal to the services for 14 years, despite all they could throw at us, however I am willing to finally vote with my feet if they charge me £1000 a month for my quarter. I honestly believe we have a right to cheap accommodation, and before any liberals out there start bleating about - "why should you be entitled to a cheap house" - we cannot choose where we live, we are sent to a location and told to stay there for 2 years.

I am now sick and tired of being f d around by MOD and the government, having spent almost 9 months apart from my family in the last 12, with very little in the way of thanks or support or financial incentive, I am at the end of my tether.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this rumour and how much will this affect YOU if it is true? Maybe the time is finally coming for action....

[bad livin']

I hope that rumour proves ill founded. It would make interesting news however coming hot on the tails of recent reports bemoaning the often dreadful state of service accommodation. Sadly though it wouldn't surprise me either.

[L1A2 discharged]

Rents will increase year-on-year to a level comparable with that charged by privat landlords, whether that is capped as a general level for each site, or set at each local area I don't know.

Can't find the reference at the moment - will look on the intranet tomorrow.

[L J R]

So the MQs in BzN will be a tenner a month. Market price for squaller.



DHE fails to realise that market rates for housing comes with maintenance, service and pay for what you get. I am yet to see a Brit MQ that has maintenance & repairs similar to what you would get from a realtor/letting agency.....so by deifnition, the service from DHE should also get better.

[3winged]

In addition.....

Yes, it might be alarmist, but in certain parts of the country the charge we pay is currently nowhere near the 'market value'. Where I am based, the rent is likely to increase from around £400 to over £900 (if the rumour is true).

Add to that the fact that my garage has water running over the light switch and fuse box (emergency repair requested over 2 months ago!) there are 3 radiators not working in my house (5 visits to fix - still not working), large cracks in the walls and windows that do not close properly - all that in a recently (5 years ago) 'refurbished' 4 bed semi.

Is that acceptable? Is it acceptable to pay more and more each year for a less and less satisfactory standard of housing? Like I said I have been loyal for a long time, accepting what they threw at us, as I love my job and could not do it anywhere else (apart from maybe Oz or NZ!) but this is going too bloody far.

However, if it does not happen, then hey ho, this is a 'rumour' network after all............

[mbga9pgf]

Well, if they do give us a 15% increase in Rents this year and a paltry 3% CPI driven pay increase (whereas unions throught the UK use RPI, as does AFP75 for calculating increases), I am sure the newspapers, the press generally would love to know about the shambolic way in which our Service Families are being treated as a result of cutbacks and decreasing defence budget. Especially as the media caught on to recent displays of poor quality of accom.
People up top, if you are listening, and I very much doubt you are, THIS IS EXACTLY THE SORT OF REASON THAT PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE ARMED FORCES FOR ON A DAILY BASIS!
TELL ME WHY I SHOULD DO 6 MONTHS IN THE DESERT AWAY FROM MY WIFE AS OPPOSED TO LEAVING AND GETTING A BETTER PAID JOB WITH THE AIRLINES INSTEAD OF YOU SCREWING ME OUT OF MY PAY THROUGH THE BACK DOOR? OH, YOU CAN TRAIN SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THE JOB FOR 5 MILLION AND SEE WHO FINANCIALLY WILL BE BETTER OFF WHEN US AIRCREW ARE LEAVING IN DROVES, ALL IN THE NAME OF MAKING A FEW QUID!

[Climebear]

Members of the AFPRB came to a certain Purple Bat Cave in NW london during this years deliberation - a significant proportion of the discussion in the group I was in related to FQ rents.

There is a whole section on the calculation of rents in last year's AFPRB report. In particular, the following para

5.2 In line with our remit on maintaining broad comparability, we consider Service accommodation rental charges in relation to the accommodation costs of civilian comparators. The Service accommodation rental charges, however, are intentionally set below market rates for comparable civilian accommodation to reflect the inherent disadvantages associated with living in Service accommodation. These disadvantages include the lack of choice, lack of security of tenure on postings or on leaving the Armed Forces, lack of an option to buy and restrictions on decorating or making other changes. We are also mindful of the fact that there are considerable advantages to the Services of having personnel located close to, or on, bases.

The AFPRB told us that the 'target' was gradually raise rents for Grade 1 accommodation to a level that equates to 40% of the national mean rent for equivelant accommodation. Seems that, statistically speaking, the disadvantages of living in Service accommodation are greater (60%) than the advantages (40%).

[3winged]

mbga, I agree wholeheartedly and rest assured that if this rumour does become fact, I and most of the people on this base who live in SFA will be going straight to the press to make sure the rest of the country find out exactly how our families are being treated whilst we fight overseas.

[r supwoods]

Now... married quarters with below market place rents .. couldn't that be classed as a benefit and thus taxable .... just a thought ....

Same with medical care such as dentistry ....


Now off to hide ....

[hobie]

1 Bed Flats £690 2 Bed Flats£917 3 Bed Flats £902 2 Bed Houses£893 3 Bed Houses £1,204 4 Bed Houses£1,674

(per month)

Typical Rents in Ruislip area ..... i.e. Northolt

[BleepBleep]

Originally Posted by 3winged

Yes, it might be alarmist, but in certain parts of the country the charge we pay is currently nowhere near the 'market value'. Where I am based, the rent is likely to increase from around £400 to over £900 (if the rumour is true).

Add to that the fact that my garage has water running over the light switch and fuse box (emergency repair requested over 2 months ago!) there are 3 radiators not working in my house (5 visits to fix - still not working), large cracks in the walls and windows that do not close properly - all that in a recently (5 years ago) 'refurbished' 4 bed semi.

Is that acceptable? Is it acceptable to pay more and more each year for a less and less satisfactory standard of housing? Like I said I have been loyal for a long time, accepting what they threw at us, as I love my job and could not do it anywhere else (apart from maybe Oz or NZ!) but this is going too bloody far.

However, if it does not happen, then hey ho, this is a 'rumour' network after all............

3winged I think we live on the same patch!!! Properties were reburbished in the same timescale. I still have repairs outstanding from march-in almost 6 months ago. Even then I had to report them myself as "CCOs are no longer responsible for submitting or hastening repairs". As a result I still have a borken window in my living-room and everytime I speak to the lack-of-helpline full of scouse teenagers I get teh royal runaround and a promise that a different department will phone me back - which surprise, surprise they never do. I won't even start to talk about the central heating system.

On the subject of SFA rent, it has been a declared aim of the AFPRB to gradually increase quartering charges in line with commercial rates (subject to the earlier quote about reductions, although I didn't think it was to 40%). Will wait with baited breath to see if my take-home actually goes up in Apr, although I'm not confident!! I was promoted this year and the pay increase was cancelled by the increase in SFA charge and CILOT that went with it!!!!

Has anyone managed to work out how we are better off since this bunch of jokers took power? One of the junior jesters took it as read that we were already benefitting when the Parlimentary Armed Forces scheme visited an overseas location several years back.

Let's see how whatever raise we get is hidden from public attention this year!!

[juliet]

Anyone know the rules when renting civvy? If for example there are major problems with the house, say a badly leaking roof, can you not withhold the rent until it is repaired? Surely there is some legal support here for getting money back from the MOD when DHE arent meeting their obligations.

[In Tor Wot]

Works

Juliet - I rented my house for 8 years whilst overseas/in another part of the country and had to abide by the laws applicable to landlords. The basics - you (the landlord) are legally responsible for:

The house having an electrical safety certificate, (3winged note)

Any combusting heating system (oil/gas) must be inspected/serviced annually (by a qualified engineer) and a certificate issued.

Maintaining the fabric of the building in a safe and reasonable manner (i.e. repairs must be effected in a reasonable period of time).

The reason I bought a house was because of the initial hike in FMQ rents in 1996. Unfortunately, having been posted to areas where I couldn't afford a kennel let alone a house, I had to go back into quarters.

At my last (ever) quarter, a leaking garage roof and damage to the property held within made me request repairs. When they hadn't been done in a reasonable time (4 weeks) and after a number of ‘phone calls, I sent a letter to the local DHE office stating they had 7 days to effect repairs or I would have the work completed privately and then sue them for the bill. It was met with a mixture of incredulity and derision. The smile and sneering attitude was removed when the Small Claims Court summons landed on their desk. I received numerous ‘you can’t do that’ ‘phone calls to which the response was always the same, ‘Why not? you’re the landlord, I’m the tenant and these are the laws of the land’. They refunded the bill (‘just this once’) and I had the repairs I was entitled to.

If you’ve got something that is patently dangerous (water running through a fuse box might be a good example) the period of time regarded as ‘reasonable’ shrinks rapidly.

If rents rise to civilian equivalents then the ‘rules’ that apply to civilian landlords have to be enforced in the same manner.

[Wader2]

This will become the same bum biting as the military salary.

IF rents are lower than the local average then it can be assessed as part of your pay package. With the pre-mil salary SSA was free as was food. For the married they got a marriage allowace. If in quarters, some was clawed back in quarters rent. If in private then you could do with the allowance as you wished.

With the advent of the military salary all these 'freebies' and 'allowances' were abolished and we go an uplift in pay. The original quarters plan was for OMQs to be based on a mortgage repayment and the AMQs on council rent. The latter would have worked. It was pointed out that a linkage to mortgage payment should equal free as property price inflation meant that the a private house was effectively free. (OK there were other factos like rates but essentially OMQs should have been cheaper than AMQs.

Now the bum biting. When they raised the salary so we could pay for food and accommodation they overlooked the fact that this uplift would be pensionable.

So, as quarters rent rises so the perk should reduce and salaries should increase in compensation. It also brings a dose of reality to those in quarters.

[safe depth]

Civilian landlord obligations

I happen to be in SFA and rent my own place out, so I'm aware of the rules in both cases. A tennant on a shorthold lease can by law make his own repairs to the rental property, if he can argue that the defect causes a health or safety issue, and that the landlord has not acted to rectify the problem within a reasonable time scale. The tenant can then write off the amount spent against the next rental payement(s). Your local citizens advice bureau will advise you on this.

Seems fair that if the DHE's maintenance contractor (MODern?) haven't responded quickly enough to a significant defect (which I believe is often the case) then a similar rule will apply to SFA. Difficulty will come witholding rental, since it comes straight from JPAC off your pay. I can imagine that being an adminsitrative challenge. I've found the PFI properties very good for maintenace, although they are brand new houses with fewer problems.

[safe depth]

I happen to be in SFA and rent my own place out, so I'm aware of the rules in both cases. A tennant on a shorthold lease can by law make his own repairs to the rental property, if he can argue that the defect causes a health or safety issue, and that the landlord has not acted to rectify the problem within a reasonable time scale. The tenant can then write off the amount spent against the next rental payement(s). Your local citizens advice bureau will advise you on this.

Seems fair that if the DHE's maintenance contractor (MODern?) haven't responded quickly enough to a significant defect (which I believe is often the case) then a similar rule will apply to SFA. Difficulty will come witholding rental, since it comes straight from JPAC off your pay. I can imagine that being an adminsitrative challenge. I've found the PFI properties very good for maintenace, although they are brand new houses with fewer problems.

[An Teallach]

Another corker from Beau Bo D'Or:

[Green Bottle 2]

SD,

There is one fundamental difference between FMQ and a private hiring - namely that in FMQ you are a licensee and not a tenant, therefore your rights are different.

The law, I believe, states that if you are the sole occupier (including family as well) under licence, then you have the same rights as if you were a private tenant. However there is a specific exemption for councils i.e. you are a licencee even if you are a sole occupier. I asked the question on Aspals - a legal website with an open forum - as to whether the military was also covered by this clause and the answer was that it is.

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the advice and the act does not specifically mention the military situation. Perhaps this is something that requires a court ruling to set a precedent?

GB2

[A and C]

Mrs A and C has rented property in the past and all of the above about safety certificates and maintenance of the property is true and tenants are not slow in taking action if something is not right.

I don't have a problem with this as they should get what they are paying for.

The actions of the DHE in the case if a SNCO that I know would have had Mrs A and C in court weeks ago if it had been a civil let.

I find it very distastefull that the DHE is hiding behind the threat to a career if you stand up for your rights and demand to get the service that you are paying for.

[Cumbrian Fell]

SFA

As pointed out above those who live in SFA are not tenants, they are licencees and therein lies an enormous difference. Contractually there is no security of tenure (cf an assured shorthold tenancy) and, inter alia, much of the legislation relating to the letting of properties doesn't apply (therefore legal threats based on assumed tenancy rights don't carry any weight). DHE are, by the way, no more, being replaced a while back by Defence Estates Housing Directorate.

Make the jump, get an eye-watering mortgage and say goodbye to petty rules and magnolia (ironically, our new property is becoming a neutrals/magnolia heaven!).