Avro Vulcan XJ823
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Avro Vulcan XJ823
This survivor is in amazing condition inside. Her paintwork worn and faded belies just how complete she is inside! I wonder how much work would be involved in getting her powered up even just the aapp??
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65855
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65855
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Interesting internal shots of 823. The Decca 72m has been replaced by the earlier GreenSatin Mk 2. The HRS Navs Heading Unit (the big wheel) is there but the blanking plate was where the HRS control unit had been IIRC.
Can't remember the nav rad's arm panel but suspect it might have been panel ER given the 2 banks of fuses but that is really stretching the grey cells.
Can't remember the nav rad's arm panel but suspect it might have been panel ER given the 2 banks of fuses but that is really stretching the grey cells.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
They could have acquired a green sation to fill the hole. The Decca Doppler 72m was also a fit in the Sea King.
The blanking plate is in fact where the TACAN used to be. The HRS controller is to the left of the NHU.
The armament panel is indeed Panel ER for the WE177B.
The blanking plate is in fact where the TACAN used to be. The HRS controller is to the left of the NHU.
The armament panel is indeed Panel ER for the WE177B.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having arrived on the Vulcan in 1979, well after DD72M had replaced Green Satin, that is definately the Decca 72 Control unit, I only did GS (or Blue Silk - the over water version) at Cosford on the Shacklebomber 3.
Blue Silk, the Green Satin had similar control unit. This is similar to the Decca Doppler 72, but there are no Red or Green lights etc.
Blue Silk, the Green Satin had similar control unit. This is similar to the Decca Doppler 72, but there are no Red or Green lights etc.
Last edited by ZH875; 15th Dec 2006 at 21:41. Reason: Added Blue Silk picture
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It is Green Satin MARK 2. The mark 2 introduced the rather amber and green lights thus mucking up a reasonable design.
Looks like the Techies disagree with the operators.
My money is still with DD72.
see: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_le...l6/navplot.htm Here the box is described as Decca Doppler 72.
and: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/l_brait...back_panel.htm Again refer to Decca Doppler
My money is still with DD72.
see: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_le...l6/navplot.htm Here the box is described as Decca Doppler 72.
and: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/l_brait...back_panel.htm Again refer to Decca Doppler
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From http://john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/green_satin.html
Diagram of the front panel of the Green Satin doppler, taken from my OCU Notes. J Dillon
In the diagram above, showing the front panel there are two light indicators on the repeater; a green lamp showed that the unit was functionally OK, producing good output, an orange lamp meant that the system had gone to memory mode. If the system was operating over a smooth sea surface then the radar returns would sometimes not be adequate and the system would freeze with the last recorded groundspeed and drift. It was important for the Nav Plotter to be very aware of the state of these indicators as Green Satin was an input to the GPI6, and so all position information from the navigation system would be effected by the state of the Green Satin. If it were in memory mode for long then the position information would become progressively more inaccurate depending on the error between true groundspeed and drift, and the last accurate readings frozen in the Green Satin memory. If the unit remained in memory mode for more than a few minutes then the Plotter would need to use other methods to measure drift, if the aircraft was in a position where radar fixes were possible (over or near land features) then the system could be corrected by inputting frequent radar updates to the GPI6. Any tendency for Green Satin to go to memory could be guaranteed to draw a curse from the Nav Plotter, as it would always mean increased workload for him, and some inaccuracy in his route navigation. To help with the sensitivity needed between over land and over sea operation there is a land/sea switch bottom right allowing the Plotter to change the selection.
Diagram of the front panel of the Green Satin doppler, taken from my OCU Notes. J Dillon
In the diagram above, showing the front panel there are two light indicators on the repeater; a green lamp showed that the unit was functionally OK, producing good output, an orange lamp meant that the system had gone to memory mode. If the system was operating over a smooth sea surface then the radar returns would sometimes not be adequate and the system would freeze with the last recorded groundspeed and drift. It was important for the Nav Plotter to be very aware of the state of these indicators as Green Satin was an input to the GPI6, and so all position information from the navigation system would be effected by the state of the Green Satin. If it were in memory mode for long then the position information would become progressively more inaccurate depending on the error between true groundspeed and drift, and the last accurate readings frozen in the Green Satin memory. If the unit remained in memory mode for more than a few minutes then the Plotter would need to use other methods to measure drift, if the aircraft was in a position where radar fixes were possible (over or near land features) then the system could be corrected by inputting frequent radar updates to the GPI6. Any tendency for Green Satin to go to memory could be guaranteed to draw a curse from the Nav Plotter, as it would always mean increased workload for him, and some inaccuracy in his route navigation. To help with the sensitivity needed between over land and over sea operation there is a land/sea switch bottom right allowing the Plotter to change the selection.
Last edited by forget; 16th Dec 2006 at 11:06. Reason: Added notes
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The amber M light illuminated when the doppler went to memory and the T light illuminated when it was tracking.
The upper limit of the GS was 750 (maybe 700) kts and was reached at least once. Can't remember the Captain's name but the plotter was Tony Court. They were flying from Goose to Waddo and realised they had a stonking jet tail wind. They went for it and did a high mach run across the pond.
The flight was IRO 3hr 15min and they beat customs by a good hour and a half
.
The DD72M, IIRC, had an upper speed of about 1000 kts and also a digital speed readout I think. It may have had both digital and analogue speed displays.
The upper limit of the GS was 750 (maybe 700) kts and was reached at least once. Can't remember the Captain's name but the plotter was Tony Court. They were flying from Goose to Waddo and realised they had a stonking jet tail wind. They went for it and did a high mach run across the pond.
The flight was IRO 3hr 15min and they beat customs by a good hour and a half
.The DD72M, IIRC, had an upper speed of about 1000 kts and also a digital speed readout I think. It may have had both digital and analogue speed displays.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/l_brait...back_panel.htm Again refer to Decca Doppler
The Loran C, like the Tacan, was a generic fit thus the box could be swapped to other types, including the Victor.
Any chance of merging this thread with Did you Fly the Vulcan?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chippenham, Wilts
Age: 75
Posts: 297
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dd 72m?
see: http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_le...l6/navplot.htm Here the box is described as Decca Doppler 72.
Definatley DD 72M, that is the very lovely Maurice P*******n, earstwhile Flt Cdr Air 44 (R) Sqn. I am sat on his left and Pete L****n on his right.
3 Putts
Definatley DD 72M, that is the very lovely Maurice P*******n, earstwhile Flt Cdr Air 44 (R) Sqn. I am sat on his left and Pete L****n on his right.
3 Putts
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Over the hill (and far away)
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Log book shows that XJ823 was on 27 Sqn's inventory from April 1977 - I have it's first sortie as a 10 min delivery flight from Waddo to Scampers (captain - Wg Cdr Willis). It was still with 27 in December 1980, just before I was posted; 2.10 co-pilot check, captain - Wg Cdr Pearson.
The blanking plate may be where the Loran C was fitted (memory weak on this as I did not spend much time looking over the plotter's shoulder, mostly head was resting on the radar camera). I don't think the bombers had Loran; it was fitted to 27 'frames to provide the plotter withy something to do while we were out of range of most other navaids/land on all those long interesting MRR sorties (not to mention the other role).
The blanking plate may be where the Loran C was fitted (memory weak on this as I did not spend much time looking over the plotter's shoulder, mostly head was resting on the radar camera). I don't think the bombers had Loran; it was fitted to 27 'frames to provide the plotter withy something to do while we were out of range of most other navaids/land on all those long interesting MRR sorties (not to mention the other role).
Last edited by HTB; 16th Dec 2006 at 15:12. Reason: forgot to add the second paragraph
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
By the time they were disposed of there would have been a more than adequate supply of bits for the Victor where bits fitted and also similar legacy items like pillar lamps as fitted to Lancaster, Shackleton, Vulcan and Nimrod - yup Avro must have had a hangar full of these lamps - bakelite with a GVI logo even.
I have had a closer look at the internal photo. The pillar lamp can be seen clearly to the top right of the weapons control panel, if you increase the brightness. At the same time you can see that the actual WE177 controller has been removed although the mounting box is still in place.
Playing with the image editor also shows that the doppler is identical to the Green Satin as shown by Forget.
I have had a closer look at the internal photo. The pillar lamp can be seen clearly to the top right of the weapons control panel, if you increase the brightness. At the same time you can see that the actual WE177 controller has been removed although the mounting box is still in place.
Playing with the image editor also shows that the doppler is identical to the Green Satin as shown by Forget.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 17th Dec 2006 at 15:25.