Photography on duty
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
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It's still pretty easy to keep things anon. - use a pre-pay 3G phone/camera (some with 5 Mb resolution) and upload to picture-share sites only ever using the phone to access them. Ensure that the phone is only ever topped up using top-ups paid for in cash, and don't make/receive any calls on it to/from other phones. Entirely feasible, but don't tell anyone I told you 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Well it all depends on how much effort big brother is willing to devote to the exercise. PAYG phones are relatively anonymous, but the network can track exactly where the phone has been, and so it wouldn't be all that hard to track it down. Blocking it would be even simpler.
I suspect that if any images of relevance to the goings-on in Ipswich were found, big brother would devote the necessary effort in a heartbeat. But for a few pics of some military toys? I doubt it.
It seems pretty obvious to me that there needs to be a control policy for image recording in an environment where protectively marked material is commonplace. The James Bond types of 30 years ago would have given their right arms for a device smaller than a cigarette packet that could surreptitiously take photos of a new shiny thing and send it anywhere in the world in a few seconds. However, said device could also be used to take commemorative photos of the Sgt's Mess Christmas bash, and what's wrong with that? A balance needed, methinks.
I suspect that if any images of relevance to the goings-on in Ipswich were found, big brother would devote the necessary effort in a heartbeat. But for a few pics of some military toys? I doubt it.
It seems pretty obvious to me that there needs to be a control policy for image recording in an environment where protectively marked material is commonplace. The James Bond types of 30 years ago would have given their right arms for a device smaller than a cigarette packet that could surreptitiously take photos of a new shiny thing and send it anywhere in the world in a few seconds. However, said device could also be used to take commemorative photos of the Sgt's Mess Christmas bash, and what's wrong with that? A balance needed, methinks.
Red On, Green On
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PAYG phones are relatively anonymous, but the network can track exactly where the phone has been, and so it wouldn't be all that hard to track it down. Blocking it would be even simpler.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Well true, but ebay is the point where it becomes a lot more traceable, since presumably, the person selling it wants to physically collect their money.
Just binning it would be more straightforward.
Just binning it would be more straightforward.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The Answer is here gentlemen. Dont get a PAYG phone, get this little beauty
http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/03/s...igital-camera/
http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/03/s...igital-camera/
Join Date: May 2002
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1984
Ok, just watched a docu on The History Channel (crazy Fri night I know!) where Nazi Servicemen had filmed WW2 events on THEIR OWN CAMERA EQUIPMENT! For petes sake, even the Nazi's stopped at this sort of censoring and allowed an element of personal documentation. Whatever next? Political Officers assigned to every Sqn/Reg/Ship to make sure that not only are any images you take in line with government policy, but your thoughts, opinions and values are too? This whole idea won't last 5 mins (I hope).
I would hate to think the images that will be available to my grandchildren in the future, of the conflicts we are fighting now, will only be of the New Labour censored type. It makes me sick.
I would hate to think the images that will be available to my grandchildren in the future, of the conflicts we are fighting now, will only be of the New Labour censored type. It makes me sick.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Interestingly, my grandfather was an avid photographer who took many photographs in Tibet and India but not one during active service in Mesopotamia. Once they had beat 'johnny Turk' he started taking them again.
OTOH, on one operation, we saw all the pax (WAGs) disembarking from a trooper snapping away like fury. True no WAGs in the sandpit, but no one thought to check them in earlier ops.
The courts farcial would be good fun though with most of the army, air force etc all arraigned.
"And what is your defence Mr Smith, TA?" May I call Colonel Blimp Sir?
OTOH, on one operation, we saw all the pax (WAGs) disembarking from a trooper snapping away like fury. True no WAGs in the sandpit, but no one thought to check them in earlier ops.
The courts farcial would be good fun though with most of the army, air force etc all arraigned.
"And what is your defence Mr Smith, TA?" May I call Colonel Blimp Sir?
None but a blockhead
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Before you go buying and running a PAYG 3G phone in cash and not making calls on it, don't forget that the network tracking can reveal a one-to-one correspondence between its location and that of any other mobile phone in your pocket. If you really want to keep out of trouble, you need to be a sight cleverer than that.
These new regs - which, not being in the services, I haven't seen - won't have been prompted by the sudden appearance of lots of cheap digital cameras; you've been able to buy a disposable film camera for a fiver for years. It's YouTube and Flickr.
Solution: take the pics for your grandchildren, mates, whatever as before, but don't go uploading them in public places - or at least, leave that as a decision for your grandchildren when you're safely out of reach of even the snottiest rulebook. Print 'em out, stick them in an album, delete or encrypt the original files, or copy them onto a USB drive and put it in a shoebox.
I can't see that a camera ban will be workable in any case, unless there's some plan for mil issue mobile phones -- and how well will that work -- or somebody popping around to put a blob of purple paint with a crown seal on the lens of your Nokia.
R
These new regs - which, not being in the services, I haven't seen - won't have been prompted by the sudden appearance of lots of cheap digital cameras; you've been able to buy a disposable film camera for a fiver for years. It's YouTube and Flickr.
Solution: take the pics for your grandchildren, mates, whatever as before, but don't go uploading them in public places - or at least, leave that as a decision for your grandchildren when you're safely out of reach of even the snottiest rulebook. Print 'em out, stick them in an album, delete or encrypt the original files, or copy them onto a USB drive and put it in a shoebox.
I can't see that a camera ban will be workable in any case, unless there's some plan for mil issue mobile phones -- and how well will that work -- or somebody popping around to put a blob of purple paint with a crown seal on the lens of your Nokia.
R
At the end of GW1, we were told that we could talk freely to the media and use whatever piccies we might have taken in whatever way we wished. No-one weasled on about copyright or other such niff-naff. Airfix even pinched one of my piccies - that's my 'Armoured Charmer' on the 'Desert Storm' Tornado GR1 kit.
Officialdom even asked if we had any spare piccies they could have, since there weren't any surplus PONTIs in theatre to take 'Official Crown Copyright' phots. Several of us obliged; no-one ever said thank you though.
Several magazine articles were written and photos used by the more reputable magazines, such as AFM and the RAF Yearbook. No-one worried about that.
Perhaps the difference was that GW1 was seen as a just and honest war, widely supported by the folks back home. Remember all those Christmas cakes and thousands of Mr Kipling mince pies which arrived 16 years ago this very week?
Even Air Clues used to pay £25 for a decent piccie - no questions asked. They used a Bear D fin shot, of mine, for example. I also sold a 'Last Flash Trail' piccie to Arthur Gibson and he refused to give me any change - that was a bit like selling a photo to David Bailey!
So if the leaden hand of the Thought Police has now descended on photography, future generations will wonder what happened in the 'New Blairite Dark Age'....
Officialdom even asked if we had any spare piccies they could have, since there weren't any surplus PONTIs in theatre to take 'Official Crown Copyright' phots. Several of us obliged; no-one ever said thank you though.
Several magazine articles were written and photos used by the more reputable magazines, such as AFM and the RAF Yearbook. No-one worried about that.
Perhaps the difference was that GW1 was seen as a just and honest war, widely supported by the folks back home. Remember all those Christmas cakes and thousands of Mr Kipling mince pies which arrived 16 years ago this very week?
Even Air Clues used to pay £25 for a decent piccie - no questions asked. They used a Bear D fin shot, of mine, for example. I also sold a 'Last Flash Trail' piccie to Arthur Gibson and he refused to give me any change - that was a bit like selling a photo to David Bailey!
So if the leaden hand of the Thought Police has now descended on photography, future generations will wonder what happened in the 'New Blairite Dark Age'....
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The first casualty of war is the truth - Tony and his mates clearly don't wish for their various escapades to be recorded in any other way than with something they can control! Amazing that the Mod has even considered this - I dispair for my friends left in .
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If memory serves, prior to each GW1 mission and all subsequent 'no-fly zone policing' missions, all personal effects and badges were removed into safe storage. All you had on you was a geneva Convention ID chit.
It would be better if the powers that be educated people on the potential good/bad of photos appearing in the media without scrutiny. But whatever you do, there will always be some moron that will screw the pooch and create major embarrassment.
It would be better if the powers that be educated people on the potential good/bad of photos appearing in the media without scrutiny. But whatever you do, there will always be some moron that will screw the pooch and create major embarrassment.
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"there will always be some moron that will screw the pooch and create major embarrassment"
And when they do, this new reg will allow an easier prosecution for "Conduct Predjudicial to the Good Order and Discipline of the Armed Forces"!
I don't know about the UK, but the US "Uniform Code of Military Justice" has that as the title of Article 134... also known as the "catch-all charge".
While charges can be brought under 134 for this kind of stuff, it would be subject to legal challenge on Constitutional "Free Speech" grounds. Although there would be little chance of avoiding conviction using that defense, something like your reg would eliminate all possibility of using that defense by providing a specific case of "Disobedience of a Lawful Order".
The problem, as you say, the the difficulty of enforcement (which will be, inevitably, selective... usually going after the worst offenders), and also the long-term implications for society as a whole, because where one governmental branch goes, the others will want to follow.
It is also subject to abuse, where it is used to target individuals who are doing what everyone else in their unit is doing, but have annoyed someone who then turns them in... "The British Video Inquisition" anyone?
And when they do, this new reg will allow an easier prosecution for "Conduct Predjudicial to the Good Order and Discipline of the Armed Forces"!
I don't know about the UK, but the US "Uniform Code of Military Justice" has that as the title of Article 134... also known as the "catch-all charge".
While charges can be brought under 134 for this kind of stuff, it would be subject to legal challenge on Constitutional "Free Speech" grounds. Although there would be little chance of avoiding conviction using that defense, something like your reg would eliminate all possibility of using that defense by providing a specific case of "Disobedience of a Lawful Order".
The problem, as you say, the the difficulty of enforcement (which will be, inevitably, selective... usually going after the worst offenders), and also the long-term implications for society as a whole, because where one governmental branch goes, the others will want to follow.
It is also subject to abuse, where it is used to target individuals who are doing what everyone else in their unit is doing, but have annoyed someone who then turns them in... "The British Video Inquisition" anyone?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And have a look at the official MOD Sanctuary magazine. Are they really expecting a military photographer to crawl around photographing flora and fauna?
I note from today's Sunday Times:
......in October the Ministry of Defence banned the use of cameras on operations. This was not for security reasons, but because they “may cause significant embarrassment to the MoD”.
Couldn't have MoD being embarrassed now, could we.....
......in October the Ministry of Defence banned the use of cameras on operations. This was not for security reasons, but because they “may cause significant embarrassment to the MoD”.
Couldn't have MoD being embarrassed now, could we.....
And without 'private' photography the BoI for XV206 (Herc in Helmand) would have very little to go on apart from the aftermath and the crews' account which can always be twisted by one of the 'experts' in hindsight vision.
I wonder how many other BoI's or Unit Inquiries have been helped by unofficial photo's?
* * Pertama * *
I wonder how many other BoI's or Unit Inquiries have been helped by unofficial photo's?
* * Pertama * *
Yes, our phones were handed in on Telic 1, or most of them. A few days later a list of text messages and content sent from our location arrived via the CoC - so they didn't trust us entirely. We were also told, tho' it didn't happen, that RAFP would wipe any electronic media on leaving theatre - obviously a futile exercise to even try.
I have seen a number of unit dvds recording the highlights and low points of their tours, most very moving and well put together, which act as a permanent record as well as a reminder of the sacrifices made by many brave boys and girls. It would be a travesty if the result of this DIN was to curtail them. On the plus side, are unit COs really going to discourage this type of activity? A few local rules should suffice.
A merry Christmas to all in the Operational areas
I have seen a number of unit dvds recording the highlights and low points of their tours, most very moving and well put together, which act as a permanent record as well as a reminder of the sacrifices made by many brave boys and girls. It would be a travesty if the result of this DIN was to curtail them. On the plus side, are unit COs really going to discourage this type of activity? A few local rules should suffice.
A merry Christmas to all in the Operational areas
