RAF Meltdown - Has it begun?

[bwfg3]

resettlement

Did my resettlement brief today. I was shocked to hear that the 530 odd quid for courses has not changed since 1994. The AFPRB tried to raise it, but were told by the seatpolishers at the treasury that if it was put up... " we'll tax it mate"

[Rigga]

A small tale of woe.

I left, having seen the Light, in 1999. I Joined as an Aiframe Mech in 1975. I consider that I have done reasonably well since leaving, though not as well as some, no doubt.
Not so long ago, at a large international airport just outside Amsterdam, I was completing a C of A survey by doing a physical inspection of a Fokker 100 belonging to a now sadly missed and defunct airline. As I walked to the aircraft the crew were relaxing, sitting outside the Fwd Door, in the airbridge. I announced who I was and what I was to do in the time between flights.
I was immediately ‘pounced’ upon by the Captain who ripped into me about the state of that aircraft’s interior and trim. After listening to him venting his spleen at me, the only engineering ‘authority’ he had seem for quite some time, and letting him get it all off his chest, I confirmed that the aircraft engines and systems were in a safe condition, and then quietly reminded him that the maintenance (that he required) used to be correctly done by swapping ship-sets at every heavy maintenance visit. It was his bosses (Operations) who ‘let the side down’ when instigating a cut to maintenance costs. (In hindsight we could call that a “Leaning” system.) Since then, only defective items were removed and repaired at the maintenance base, everything else being considered as "pointless".
This change in Philosophy not only meant that some jobs went out the company, but also meant that aircraft now left the hangars with “Green Lines” for cabin defects that couldn’t be fixed due to Turn-round times. Trim now came in “McGintys” colour variations instead of a single Batch of sprayed items, and not one Ship (in a fleet of 50+) had a working set of Seats, Tables, Galleys, Toilets or Windows.
I remember saying something very like this (as it was quite astute for me!):
“I agree that Paint, Trim, Carpets and Furnishings are the front face of our industry and airline, but, your bosses won’t pay for the maintenance consequences of the type of flying you do, and with all the good will in the world between operator and maintenance, if we won’t be paid for it - we can’t do it!”
First (fashionable) mistake - the Airline disassociated itself from the maintenance arm of its Company.
Then it tried to reduce the maintenance to little or nothing.
Then it tried to reduce operating costs again. with little support from maintenance or pilots, the end was nigh.
That airline ceased to be within two years of that instance.
After losing the contract to maintain sucessor operators, the Engineering Company turned to other customers and remains quite well to this day. But then, I am informed that in the main it was that MRO that regularly made operating profits, not the airline?
Just an 'interesting' story of an airline, more interested in cutting costs than paying for what it wanted to do.
Might seem familiar to you.

[MooseJaw]

Meltdown - and not Just the Troops!

Agree with all the sentiments - RAF has big rep for doing more with less - although admiration of other Forces sometimes turns more into bemusement and doubts over our sanity/wisdom!
But there's more than one way to flog a willing horse - we do the same to the aircraft. Helo's and - love it or hate it - C-17 deliver the goods but are piling on the hours fast. Seems in today's RAF reliable high performance is increasingly a cause for self-inflicted injury!

[HansBwix]

Originally Posted by Wyler

Some real (depressing) food for thought on this thread.

I think a fitting example of the p!ss poor management of the RAF can be found at High Wycombe. One of the most expensive pieces of Real Estate in the country and the airships are busy shoe horning more and more people into it. The excess rent allowance alone must be close to 1 Million pounds a month. The airships reside in their huge residences, decorated at Public Expense by Mrs Airship, and play Lord and Master over their bloated staffs. Just a stones throw from the Ministry as well so they can nip 'into town' for lunch and drinks. This is the modern air force for you. Huge amounts of waste to keep 'The Few' in comfort and feed their self importance.

Their excuse? The bunker is a National Asset and cannot be closed. Bollox.

If the Prime Minister and the President of the USA can video conference reference the future of Iraq then the airships can move to a more affordable location, 'downsize' like the rest of us, and do the same regarding the latest movement of the one remaining serviceable combat aircraft.

.

Wyler - there's a nice empty bunker going near Norwich that nobody wants anymore.........

Which reminsds me of a certain sketch from Yes Minister discussing the movement of the Armed Forces to the North to encourage employmet with the tagline along the lines of 'We couldn't possibly move up there - the Wives wouldn't stand for it for one thing.....' funny how something from the mid Eighties rings so true in the mid Noughties.

Took me a while to get back on the PP after my last post - for some reason it kept kicking me out. Coincidence or something sinister?

Now I'm off to tap in some PIs about Morale.........does anyone think I can get way with just putting a hyperlink into this thread on there instead?!

[Wyler]

Wyler - there's a nice empty bunker going near Norwich that nobody wants anymore.........


Nope, they would all want 6 bedroom houses on the river, complete with cruiser. Plus the fact that Polish seems to be the language of choice around Wroxham way these days!!

How about Dartmoor?

[HansBwix]

Okehampton

Well, Dartmoor does have a very convenient prison for those charged with gross incompetence - and you can throw the BAe guys under investigation from the SFO in there with them.

Unfortunately being that close to a live firing range it would be a bit too tempting to let a few rounds go astray............

Perhaps we should take some lessons from our old adersary in Argentina and literally decimate the starred officer corps - their president decided there were too many generals and not enough troops so got rid of most of the generals! Oh well, when I'm ArchGeneralissima all this will change.

[L1A2 discharged]

Ah well, the straw that broke the camels back arrived.

NGR submitted, into resettlement mode.

Just one fewer number to count ..

[flipster]

Going back a page, I could not help but be impressed with the term "spinal jaundice". A more apt description of our Airships' leadership-style I have yet to hear!

Bravo DuaneDibley!

[HeliAviator]

Today was one of those days when I almost threw in the towel. I have been in the mob for many, many years, I have 18 months to go before the big pension pay out and I v. nearly reached for the PVR paperwork.

1. Went to flying clothing for simple things like aircrew socks...due out, nil stock til' at least the end of Feb, along with roll necks.
2. On the way back a junior scrote decided to look the other way just to save the wave. Managed to vent my considerable spleen on his quivering frame to produce a "sorry Sir". Honestly its not difficault is it.
3. Had to deal with the "chimps" at CHBS for a group booking, steady blood pressure, after all they are here to help - NOT.
4. Tried to book a room in the mess at Wittering. Some dim witted bint tells me that they only book three weeks ahead and as I want accommodation in January it can't be done yet.
5. Entered my expenses into JPA fot a recent works trip abroad, obviously I can't be trusted as they wish to audit my receipts.
6. Tried to plan the flying program for Monday, great difficulty as a not many staff available, amazingly we have more aircraft than available crew to fly them for once.
7. Attempted to send a fax to a nameless RAF Sgt's mess, phoned to say I was about to send it, please ensure the machine was set to receive. Eight attempts later after the phone was picked up three time and allowed to ring for a further five I gave up. and went for my first cuppa of the day at 1410. Yes, didn't have time for lunch either.
8. Knocked off at 5pm today, any early finish for once. Noticed that the boss and all the adults had left and locked up some hours before. Enjoy the long weekend chaps.
9. Drove off the camp to see some muppet of a mod plod with a bunting (misspelt on purpose) speed camera, luckily I was under the limit, although I was probably the last one to leave the place.
10. Thank **** its Friday, a large slice of pizza and a couple of Corona's later all is slightly better in the world. But, what the be jazus is happening to the mob? Its almost impossible today to achive the square root of naff all, due to inability, inaction, damn right thick juniors and a total I don't give a fat dogs fart by all in sundry.

Rant over, spleen cleaned, roll on pension day, it can't arrive quick enough.

[ZOFO]

T Minus 10 and Counting (Years, Months Anyone Know)

HeliAviator,

Saw your last post and have to agree with you, Point 7, Your really should have brought the fax to your local "Tape Apes" at the Commcen, If of course you have one where you are!! We would be more than happy to help. Well for the time being anyway!! (DII=TCW for us all) Go on take away that last bit of Local Knowledge and put it all in a call centre in Jockland. Also Point 2, I agree with you I have dished out and received many a good Roll ing with regards to what you say, it would seem that the service is losing alot of the basic standards that you would expect with what is supposed to be a disciplined service, It is lucky that I did not catch this young man or he would be peeling spuds in the cookhouse!!, but I suppose now I would be done under the human rights act as he may have a spud allergy..... I could go on but why bother it would seem there is no room for old value farts like me nowadays so guess what I am leaving and letting the ones that stay deal with the chav's of today

ciao !!

[enginesuck]

Heli aviator and for that matter ZOFO, wind your funkin necks in, I cant imagine the stress of finishing work at 5pm aaww bless, but seriously labelling juniors as thick is why you funking grow bag master race have a bad name remember in fifteen years you are defunct, goodnight bawbags

[ZOFO]

enginesuck

Nice post thanks, As for "growbag" Me certainly not, nice to see you read the posts before going off on one Mine may have given you a clue of what trade I am , I am pretty sure there is a drill for the 9mm about clearing when you think it may be made ready (Don't quote me but wasn't it Half Cocked/Half Baked or Check before you fire" Can't remember now!!

[jayteeto]

Interesting to read this, and other, threads. In the past, people have always moaned and 'threatened' to PVR. It seems that they now are actually doing it. I wonder what the real figures are??

[Bluntend]

Having left the RAF it is a shame to see how bad things have got back home. The one thing that really seems to have died is respect - respect for your superiors, subordinates and even self respect. There was once a time when (most) officers at all levels repected the skills and abilities of those junior to them - not now it seems. We refer to scrotes, muppets and bints and wonder why we get no respect in return. Likewise, there appear to be too many in support roles who simply cannot be arrsed to do their job to the standard required which unfortunately has lead to those who do still take a pride in their work being tarred with the same brush.

Nobody really cares about anybody else's problems except their own - that feeling that we're all part of one big RAF family is long gone. I never thought I'd be glad to have left.

[Bluntend]

Originally Posted by Not Long Here

You leave the RAF, become a civilian and go through the whole migration process to your country of choice. As it happens both the RAAF and the RNZAF are actively recruiting.

Reason for doing so? It has to be the quality of life for you and your family.

Cheers

Just to add a little to NLH's post, the RNZAF have made some real headway in their overseas recruiting process which is centred firmly around quality of life for the servicemen and all their dependents. In the past the RNZAF have failed to adequately prepare and support overseas recruits and their families which has resulted in some returning to the UK. The Airforce, however, has learnt from these earlier failures and the welfare package they now offer is superb. Families are given every bit of support they might need, be it with regards to schooling, welfare, finance, careers, culture, accommodation even info on pet care and local vetinary services.

Because of the cost to the RNZAF of bringing people in from overseas, failure is a major setback. Therefore everybody from the CAF down goes out of their way to ensure new recruits (and their families) feel as welcome and as valued as possible.

I can't help but wonder how the RAF would have tackled a similar project and how new recruits from NZ or Aus would be treated or for that matter, how long they would stay.

[Chugalug2]

"Nobody really cares about anybody else's problems except their own - that feeling that we're all part of one big RAF family is long gone. I never thought I'd be glad to have left."
My thoughts entirely Bluntend! Reading the various posts on this thread leaves me feeling that many reveal more about the authors than the subject of their post. Whether those serving who post to Pprune are representative of those serving in general I rather doubt, but to those who are forever counting years/months/days in public, please stop to reflect that you may have an attitude problem. Until you do leave you are part of the same RAF that others share with you. If its all crap then try to make your bit of it a little less so, if you are an officer or NCO you have a duty to lead, not going around chewing out subordinates simply because you can. Pick on someone your own size, ie their officer or even your superiors. This whole scenario is unbecoming of a Service that has a proud past, and is an indictment of its Commanders. I have been critical elsewhere of the CAS and other senior members of the Air Staff. That is where responsibility lies for the military effectiveness of the RAF. But that does not mean, Ladies and Gentlemen, that you have Carte Blanche to turn on one another like rats in a trap. As Bluntend says, have some respect, both for yourselves and for each other! Who the hell am I, a bloody Tax Payer, that's who! Oh, and long long ago I also PVR'd and worked the same until my release date, I suggest some of you just try to do that.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Chugalug2

chewing out subordinates simply because you can. Pick on someone your own size, ie their officer or even your superiors.

Whilst true the facts in the real world (brave new world0 are a little different.

One station commander insisted that all visiting aircraft be met by an officer of equal rank and the CO himself for gp capt and above.

This meant that the orderly officer might meet a fair number of aircraft in a day so his job that day was OO and it was not an after hours role. This meant that any visiting aircrew were met abd cared for by someone who could deal with their problems according to their rank and status.

It used to be normal for cross communication to deal at the same rank - sqn ldr - sqn ldr etc where anything was not routine.

At another station, if you were the 'receptionist', and you might be a flt lt, the answer was never 'no' but 'yes' how can we help.

Leaning might seem to work at the core task but it is peripherals and quality of life issues that get pushed to one side. I just received a report, 2 years old, that the appropriate SOs had not even looked at; had we got it we might (but probably not) have avoided an aircraft crash.

Chewing out, just because you can, is a symptom that needs to be addressed.

[RETDPI]

In the mid '70's as a Junior Officer Flight Commander posted to a Station in RAFG I dropped in to see the SWO and introduce myself.
Surprisingly, he admitted to being a bit gobsmacked and then went on to tell me that was the first time on his current tour that any officer had thought to paid him this courtesy.
However what was not surprising to me was how many times over the following months, usually on a Monday morning, I would get a quiet phone call from the SWO recalling the latest misadventures of members of my "tribe". The usual suggested arrangement then of course being for the matter to be handled internally. Thus the near exemplary conduct record of my section was maintained and the "heavies" kept off of my back.
My point is that the family atmosphere of the Service was obviously starting to rot even then. One must I think though always remember that the Armed Forces generally reflect the societies they serve and thus will take on many of the problems.
Therefore in my case PVR was also partly driven by a rejection of the way the U.K. was going. I therefore joined the rising numbers of those also getting out of a country whose traditional cultural values are being remorselessly undermined and abandoned by those in support of other agendas.

[allan907]

This all sounds quite depressing and is not the RAF that I PVRd from in May 93to come out to Oz.

I vacated a gapped OC Admin post and on the last minute of the last hour of my very last day, lugging my bag of bits and bobs from my office drawer, I stopped in the foyer of SHQ and was sorting out a mates allowances problem before Harry Staish walked past and told me to **** off as there was a limit to "duty" and I had done enough!

Still don't miss it though.

[Chugalug2]

Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator

Chewing out, just because you can, is a symptom that needs to be addressed.

Absolutely right, PN. Beneath this thread, and others, seems to run a thread of its own, ie that of endemic bullying at all levels. Nothing is more certain to destroy morale and discipline. To my mind it is fundamentally the issue behind the "Chinook" affair above, on which I still appear to be "tail-end Charlie". That some of those who join the Services from our benighted educational system are imbued with all its nuances I have no doubt. That they are not summarily disabused of them in training, but allowed to go on practising the art form to the highest levels of command is not only unacceptable, but truly shocking. If it is true, then my condemnation on the Chinook thread extends to this one, shame on you RAF!