Questions on JSP 752
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Questions on JSP 752
So I was looking through JSP 752, which I found here:
http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldie..._all_army.html
And was considering this paragraph:
01.0118. Audit and Receipts. A number of allowance payments will be made via the JPA Expenses Claim system. These payments will be subject to a random 5% audit. To facilitate this audit claimants are required to keep the supporting receipts and paperwork for a period of 12 months from the date of claim. Claimants who have received payments for which they are subsequently unable to produce supporting receipts and paperwork for audit may be required to refund the payment.
So I have to keep my recipts for 12 months, except:
03.0172. Receipts and Supporting Documentary Evidence. The payment of
actual costs makes it necessary for all expenditure (NS, DS and IE) to be supported by receipts and supporting documentary authority to undertake the duty. Receipts are required for all expenditure in excess of £5, where these can be reasonably obtained. Where receipts cannot be obtained for items of £5 or more, a statement signed by the Service claimant itemising the expenses is to be retained with a copy of the claim. Service personnel are required to retain a copy of all claims with supporting receipts, authority to travel and, where appropriate, NACs for a period of 12 months after the date of the claim. It is emphasised that these documents are to be retained by the Service claimant and if requested by any authorised person, they are required to produce them for audit/ inspection. An ‘authorised person’ may be the CO or a delegated authority at the Service person’s unit or an external Service or civilian inspection/audit team. HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) have statutory powers of inspection. Failure to produce these documents will normally lead to recovery of claims/sums paid and/or disciplinary action.
Which I read to suggest that I don't need receipts for anything less than £5.00
Also:
01.0106. Interpretation. Personnel responsible for the administration and implementation of these regulations are expected to interpret them reasonably and intelligently with due regard to the interests of Defence, bearing in mind that no attempt has been made to provide for self-evident exceptions.
The key parts here are: regulations are open to interpretation - by test of reasonableness and intelligence, and receipts are required for all expenditure in excess of £5.
Here, then, are my questions:
1. What constitutes 'expenditure'?
2. Do I need to keep receipts for any given period of claim?
A reasonable and intelligent definition would be 'The act of spending money for goods or services'. Furthermore, considering the sub-reg of 'Where receipts cannot be obtained for items of £5 or more...' a reasonable and intelligent interpretation of the regs would suggest that receipts are NOT required for each and every individual transaction of less than £5.
Consider the following scenario:
I am entitled to capped actuals of £50 for Daily Subsistence.
I buy a McBreakfast for £4.99, then go and buy coffee for £3.99, then take a couple of bottles of water to work with me - for another £4.50. At lunch I get McLunch - £4.99, then treat myself to Ice Cream at Haagen Daas - £4.99, then more coffee - £3.99. A couple of sodas for the afternoon - £2.50. At dinner I go for a tour of the local town - £4.50 here, £3.75 there - until I eventually reach a little over £50 spent for the day.
Do I need to keep any receipts at all? Each example of expenditure has been less than £5.00 - but my total expenditure for the day has been in excess of £5.00. Considering paragraph 03.0172 - 'ITEMS of £5.00' a reasonable and intelligent interpretation of the rules would be that no receipts are required for the day. Further to that - if I claim more than one day of subsistence - say I only claim £4.99 a day for a week - my total expenditure is in excess of £5.00 - but each day is less than £5.00 - do I need to keep receipts to show my total expenditure?
Back to my scenario - I chuck the receipts in the bin. 6 months or so later, when the auditor sends for me I explain that, although I did indeed claim the full £50 for the day - I didn't have any one single expenditure in excess of £5.00 on any 'ITEM' - so I neither have any receipts nor is there a requirement to keep or provide them.
A court martial might follow, but I am confident that any barrister worth his salt could easily tear apart the test of reasonableness of JSP 752.
Any thoughts?
http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldie..._all_army.html
And was considering this paragraph:
01.0118. Audit and Receipts. A number of allowance payments will be made via the JPA Expenses Claim system. These payments will be subject to a random 5% audit. To facilitate this audit claimants are required to keep the supporting receipts and paperwork for a period of 12 months from the date of claim. Claimants who have received payments for which they are subsequently unable to produce supporting receipts and paperwork for audit may be required to refund the payment.
So I have to keep my recipts for 12 months, except:
03.0172. Receipts and Supporting Documentary Evidence. The payment of
actual costs makes it necessary for all expenditure (NS, DS and IE) to be supported by receipts and supporting documentary authority to undertake the duty. Receipts are required for all expenditure in excess of £5, where these can be reasonably obtained. Where receipts cannot be obtained for items of £5 or more, a statement signed by the Service claimant itemising the expenses is to be retained with a copy of the claim. Service personnel are required to retain a copy of all claims with supporting receipts, authority to travel and, where appropriate, NACs for a period of 12 months after the date of the claim. It is emphasised that these documents are to be retained by the Service claimant and if requested by any authorised person, they are required to produce them for audit/ inspection. An ‘authorised person’ may be the CO or a delegated authority at the Service person’s unit or an external Service or civilian inspection/audit team. HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) have statutory powers of inspection. Failure to produce these documents will normally lead to recovery of claims/sums paid and/or disciplinary action.
Which I read to suggest that I don't need receipts for anything less than £5.00
Also:
01.0106. Interpretation. Personnel responsible for the administration and implementation of these regulations are expected to interpret them reasonably and intelligently with due regard to the interests of Defence, bearing in mind that no attempt has been made to provide for self-evident exceptions.
The key parts here are: regulations are open to interpretation - by test of reasonableness and intelligence, and receipts are required for all expenditure in excess of £5.
Here, then, are my questions:
1. What constitutes 'expenditure'?
2. Do I need to keep receipts for any given period of claim?
A reasonable and intelligent definition would be 'The act of spending money for goods or services'. Furthermore, considering the sub-reg of 'Where receipts cannot be obtained for items of £5 or more...' a reasonable and intelligent interpretation of the regs would suggest that receipts are NOT required for each and every individual transaction of less than £5.
Consider the following scenario:
I am entitled to capped actuals of £50 for Daily Subsistence.
I buy a McBreakfast for £4.99, then go and buy coffee for £3.99, then take a couple of bottles of water to work with me - for another £4.50. At lunch I get McLunch - £4.99, then treat myself to Ice Cream at Haagen Daas - £4.99, then more coffee - £3.99. A couple of sodas for the afternoon - £2.50. At dinner I go for a tour of the local town - £4.50 here, £3.75 there - until I eventually reach a little over £50 spent for the day.
Do I need to keep any receipts at all? Each example of expenditure has been less than £5.00 - but my total expenditure for the day has been in excess of £5.00. Considering paragraph 03.0172 - 'ITEMS of £5.00' a reasonable and intelligent interpretation of the rules would be that no receipts are required for the day. Further to that - if I claim more than one day of subsistence - say I only claim £4.99 a day for a week - my total expenditure is in excess of £5.00 - but each day is less than £5.00 - do I need to keep receipts to show my total expenditure?
Back to my scenario - I chuck the receipts in the bin. 6 months or so later, when the auditor sends for me I explain that, although I did indeed claim the full £50 for the day - I didn't have any one single expenditure in excess of £5.00 on any 'ITEM' - so I neither have any receipts nor is there a requirement to keep or provide them.
A court martial might follow, but I am confident that any barrister worth his salt could easily tear apart the test of reasonableness of JSP 752.
Any thoughts?
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Thanks, that helps a lot.
Are we allowed to say f@*k @ff in public?
Are we allowed to say f@*k @ff in public?
Last edited by D-IFF_ident; 27th Oct 2006 at 05:13. Reason: I searched movad's other posts...
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Personally I think that any person who decided to spend a day eating gak-burgers may be considered to be behaving in an unreasonable and probably reckless manner. To continue to do so for a week would probably come under the terms of self inflicted injury.
Not a legal or accountancy type but I suggest that to continue in that vein for a period of time would bring you to the attention of the auditors (and the nutritionists).
Not a legal or accountancy type but I suggest that to continue in that vein for a period of time would bring you to the attention of the auditors (and the nutritionists).
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Personal experience.
Submitted claim, called for audit.
Submitted receipts and sandwich wrappers (bit reesty, but they asked). Not seen since.
The audit process appears to be neither random nor 5% in the RAF. If you submit a claim for anything which doesn't PRECISELY fit the expectations of the compooter, expect to be audited.
Kitbag makes a fair point though, except that I am not sure the average fast food place is any better or worse than what's served in most RAF feeders!
STH
Submitted claim, called for audit.
Submitted receipts and sandwich wrappers (bit reesty, but they asked). Not seen since.
The audit process appears to be neither random nor 5% in the RAF. If you submit a claim for anything which doesn't PRECISELY fit the expectations of the compooter, expect to be audited.
Kitbag makes a fair point though, except that I am not sure the average fast food place is any better or worse than what's served in most RAF feeders!
STH
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D-IFF
As you interpreted it is the way we also saw it i.e anything under a fiver no receipt was required.
You could therefore claim to eat X number of Big Mac's throughout the day, all under a fiver and not have to produce receipts.
No one chose to do it as it was felt that it may IMPLIES something fishy is going on, but then again, with the way the rules are written I think you'd be ok.
PS Did you get my PM from a few days ago ?
As you interpreted it is the way we also saw it i.e anything under a fiver no receipt was required.
You could therefore claim to eat X number of Big Mac's throughout the day, all under a fiver and not have to produce receipts.
No one chose to do it as it was felt that it may IMPLIES something fishy is going on, but then again, with the way the rules are written I think you'd be ok.
PS Did you get my PM from a few days ago ?
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D-IFF
Yes, you would be within the rules.
Yes, you could expect to audited and challenged.
No, you do not have to produce a receipt for any single item under £5, so the auditor cannot demand that you produce one in order to keep your allowance.
It is not reasonable for the auditor to ask you to produce your greasy month- old sandwich wrappers to prove your claim. How would he know where they actually came from anyway?
Being pragmatic for a moment: Stay squeaky clean. Only claim for what you have actually spent on items that are allowed. Claims for expenditure on food must now be for "prepared food", not the individual makings of a meal. Keep a hand written, dated and signed list of every item that you buy. Show this to the auditor if he asks for it.
If you do this, the auditor cannot reasonably accuse you of having ventured outside the letter of the regulations. He may question your spirit, but that is not sufficient to justify withdrawing the payment.
I still wouldn't fancy a whole week on McGrot burgers, but each to his own!
Regards
Ginseng
Yes, you could expect to audited and challenged.
No, you do not have to produce a receipt for any single item under £5, so the auditor cannot demand that you produce one in order to keep your allowance.
It is not reasonable for the auditor to ask you to produce your greasy month- old sandwich wrappers to prove your claim. How would he know where they actually came from anyway?
Being pragmatic for a moment: Stay squeaky clean. Only claim for what you have actually spent on items that are allowed. Claims for expenditure on food must now be for "prepared food", not the individual makings of a meal. Keep a hand written, dated and signed list of every item that you buy. Show this to the auditor if he asks for it.
If you do this, the auditor cannot reasonably accuse you of having ventured outside the letter of the regulations. He may question your spirit, but that is not sufficient to justify withdrawing the payment.
I still wouldn't fancy a whole week on McGrot burgers, but each to his own!
Regards
Ginseng
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Where is this stated?
I have a vested interest in this. I have been on CA's for the last 2 months and was lead to believe prior to departure that you may purchase food at the weekend ($69/day cap) to eat during the week ($13/day cap) as we have kitchen facilities in our digs. If this is not the case I could be more than a few quid out of pocket when I return.
Regards
K1rb5
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May I suggest that the 12 month period as defined in said JSP is actually open to challenge. It appears that no formal dispensation can be found from Hector the Collector. The normal requirement is 3 years plus the current tax year (this is what the CS have to follow with HRMS claims - in addition they also have to produce receipts for sums less than £5 whenever possible).
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k1rb5
It was introduced to JSP 752 at change 2 or 3 (sorry, I can't remeber which). Look in the section covering Day Subsistence. I don't have a copy handy to give you a precise reference - sorry.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
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EODFelix
No one has said that you might not have to keep the receipts longer than a year to satisfy someone outside MoD, only that you must keep them for at least a year in case of audit within the MoD system. Personally I keep all financial records which might be of interest to Hector for at least 7 full tax years. You won't be surprised to hear that I need a bigger filing cabinet.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
