Department of Work and Pensions, EDS....
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Portsmouth
Age: 57
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Department of Work and Pensions, EDS....
Well, well, well.
The huge computer project to revamp the DWP (Benefits) system has been quietly shelved. Guess who was the enabler?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/25/eds_deal_dwp/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07...p_new_systems/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5315280.stm?ls
Someone, somewhere in the Government has deep pockets, and the only people with sufficiently long enough arms appears to be EDS.
Do you think EDS have a Department specifically for telling the UK Government to "bend over and take it"?
The huge computer project to revamp the DWP (Benefits) system has been quietly shelved. Guess who was the enabler?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/25/eds_deal_dwp/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07...p_new_systems/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5315280.stm?ls
Someone, somewhere in the Government has deep pockets, and the only people with sufficiently long enough arms appears to be EDS.
Do you think EDS have a Department specifically for telling the UK Government to "bend over and take it"?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really puts in lights how the company lost half its world revenues in a single year and why they were required by MOD to accept special terms in their contract for DII - along the lines that if MOD didn't like how things were going, they'd have the right to novate the contract to Fujitsu.
In truth, they've probably turned the bottom of the curve, but they lost so much it's difficult to tell.
In truth, they've probably turned the bottom of the curve, but they lost so much it's difficult to tell.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DWP
[rant]
I've worked at a fair few public sector clients since I became a snake oil salesman - sorry - management consultant, but the DWP has easily been the worst.
They are institutionally incompetent at anything they touch (CSA, Pensions, IT). They have layer upon layer of middle management that is incapable of programme or project management. In fact, simple day-to-day decision-making is noticeable by its absence for fear of sticking out that neck one vertebra too many.
Like other government departments the DWP has 'head count' and 'efficiency' challenges, but senior managers deliberately put such long term horizons on any change programme (10 years+) that nothing ever really changes. They are desparate to avoid confrontation with the unions, who spoil for a fight at the drop of a hat.
Periodically, the DWP indulges in '52 Card Pick Up'. This is like 'Musical Chairs', except no chair is ever actually removed, just put in a different place. To be fair, this is often at the behest of ministers, who as we know have usually not got a Scooby Doo, never having had a 'real' job.
Senior management can best be described as 'beige' (TOG's will understand). The Corporate FD has been in place for the best part of a decade but has recently decided that the senior managers he recruited and promoted are not 'fit-for-purpose' so has spent a chunk of money with IBM to 'professionalise' his directorate. However, most of his staff have no accountancy qualifications, don't want them and reach for the cloves of garlic when you suggest 'upskilling'. Professionally trained project managers are also as rare as rocking horse %^&&*.
So between the front line staff trying their best and ministers you have an amorphous lump of *&^%$, 50% of which could be eliminated with no dip in service delivery.
I'm going for a lie down now....
[/rant]
Oh, I don't think much of EDS either....
I've worked at a fair few public sector clients since I became a snake oil salesman - sorry - management consultant, but the DWP has easily been the worst.
They are institutionally incompetent at anything they touch (CSA, Pensions, IT). They have layer upon layer of middle management that is incapable of programme or project management. In fact, simple day-to-day decision-making is noticeable by its absence for fear of sticking out that neck one vertebra too many.
Like other government departments the DWP has 'head count' and 'efficiency' challenges, but senior managers deliberately put such long term horizons on any change programme (10 years+) that nothing ever really changes. They are desparate to avoid confrontation with the unions, who spoil for a fight at the drop of a hat.
Periodically, the DWP indulges in '52 Card Pick Up'. This is like 'Musical Chairs', except no chair is ever actually removed, just put in a different place. To be fair, this is often at the behest of ministers, who as we know have usually not got a Scooby Doo, never having had a 'real' job.
Senior management can best be described as 'beige' (TOG's will understand). The Corporate FD has been in place for the best part of a decade but has recently decided that the senior managers he recruited and promoted are not 'fit-for-purpose' so has spent a chunk of money with IBM to 'professionalise' his directorate. However, most of his staff have no accountancy qualifications, don't want them and reach for the cloves of garlic when you suggest 'upskilling'. Professionally trained project managers are also as rare as rocking horse %^&&*.
So between the front line staff trying their best and ministers you have an amorphous lump of *&^%$, 50% of which could be eliminated with no dip in service delivery.
I'm going for a lie down now....
[/rant]
Oh, I don't think much of EDS either....
Froggie
Mrs CG is a middle manager (SEO) in DWP. She always has a snake oil salesman hanging around somewhere in the building.
She speaks highly of them too. Fcuking anchors seems to ring a bell!
CG
Mrs CG is a middle manager (SEO) in DWP. She always has a snake oil salesman hanging around somewhere in the building.
She speaks highly of them too. Fcuking anchors seems to ring a bell!
CG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Consultants
Yep - far too many consultants working in central government, especially the DWP. But who engages them ? The civil servants.
In 'industry', there is usually a single programme sponser who signs the cheques for the snake oil salesmen, usually high up the corporate food chain. Contrast with the public sector, where the programme sponsor is comparatively low down the organisation. His/her programme impacts many other business areas, but he/she cannot direct whether a particular course of action will be adopted, instead he/she has to build 'consensus' among the stakeholders. This means interminable steering committees, working groups, end user fora etc. etc. which fill a civil service middle manager's day.
Then there is 'Ye Olde Trippe to Jerusalem', when your sponsor get promoted, or the department concerned plays '52 Card Pick-up'. I did a small chunk of work at the FCO a few years ago, cost the taxpayer small beer (GBP 60 K). Come the time to hand over our recommendations, lo and behold Fred had gone upwards, to be replaced by George, who file 13'ed our report. One month later, another set of consultants was engaged to do the same piece of work. Now either our work was naff, in which case why pay for it or else it was at worse fair to middling, in which case why start over again ??
Individually, most civil servants are pleasant individuals who work hard and have a deep sense of public accountability. Many, however, are simply always busy doing make-work tasks for other civil servants and a significant proportion duplicate the work of colleagues three doors down the corridor. Those working at the sharp end in 'delivery' could do without half the un-qualified bean counters who spend their days consuming the odd small equatorial rainforest on meaningless management reports and filling intranets with rubbish that nobody actually reads. It's cultural and institutional and I'm sure your missus struggles against it every day.
If 'management' has a difficult decision to make, it'll get the consultants to do the deed and take the blame. If 'management' knows its existing staff are not capable of performing a complex task. instead of sacking them or shifting them sideways it'll get the consultants in. Supply and demand says that there will always be snake oil salesmen for those that are foolish enough to want snake oil; sometimes snake oil actually works !
If the civil service employed professionally qualified procurement specialists who could buy from consultancy firms using properly drawn up contracts then EDS would be screwed on this debacle and compelled to rectify programme failure or lose a shedload of money. Alternatively, they could use the money to recruit their own competent staff to do the work in-house. It's far easier, though, to blame the consultants if something goes wrong. Slopey shoulders, or what ?
In theory, I should be praying for Gordon Brown to get into No 10, as that would be my gravy train for another few years. As it is, I can't wait to see the back of the lot of them. Small government, fewer consultants, lower taxes.
FP
In 'industry', there is usually a single programme sponser who signs the cheques for the snake oil salesmen, usually high up the corporate food chain. Contrast with the public sector, where the programme sponsor is comparatively low down the organisation. His/her programme impacts many other business areas, but he/she cannot direct whether a particular course of action will be adopted, instead he/she has to build 'consensus' among the stakeholders. This means interminable steering committees, working groups, end user fora etc. etc. which fill a civil service middle manager's day.
Then there is 'Ye Olde Trippe to Jerusalem', when your sponsor get promoted, or the department concerned plays '52 Card Pick-up'. I did a small chunk of work at the FCO a few years ago, cost the taxpayer small beer (GBP 60 K). Come the time to hand over our recommendations, lo and behold Fred had gone upwards, to be replaced by George, who file 13'ed our report. One month later, another set of consultants was engaged to do the same piece of work. Now either our work was naff, in which case why pay for it or else it was at worse fair to middling, in which case why start over again ??
Individually, most civil servants are pleasant individuals who work hard and have a deep sense of public accountability. Many, however, are simply always busy doing make-work tasks for other civil servants and a significant proportion duplicate the work of colleagues three doors down the corridor. Those working at the sharp end in 'delivery' could do without half the un-qualified bean counters who spend their days consuming the odd small equatorial rainforest on meaningless management reports and filling intranets with rubbish that nobody actually reads. It's cultural and institutional and I'm sure your missus struggles against it every day.
If 'management' has a difficult decision to make, it'll get the consultants to do the deed and take the blame. If 'management' knows its existing staff are not capable of performing a complex task. instead of sacking them or shifting them sideways it'll get the consultants in. Supply and demand says that there will always be snake oil salesmen for those that are foolish enough to want snake oil; sometimes snake oil actually works !
If the civil service employed professionally qualified procurement specialists who could buy from consultancy firms using properly drawn up contracts then EDS would be screwed on this debacle and compelled to rectify programme failure or lose a shedload of money. Alternatively, they could use the money to recruit their own competent staff to do the work in-house. It's far easier, though, to blame the consultants if something goes wrong. Slopey shoulders, or what ?
In theory, I should be praying for Gordon Brown to get into No 10, as that would be my gravy train for another few years. As it is, I can't wait to see the back of the lot of them. Small government, fewer consultants, lower taxes.
FP
For those who would like to learn more -
"Plundering the Public Sector"
- how New Labour are letting consultants run off with £70 billion of our money
by David Craig and Richard Brooks
Published by Constable.
"Plundering the Public Sector"
- how New Labour are letting consultants run off with £70 billion of our money
by David Craig and Richard Brooks
Published by Constable.
As someone who still has the scars to show where the consultants tried to run me over, let me tell you how the game works from a consultants point of view.
Firstly, remember Civil servants are highly risk averse individuals. Initiative that somehow (rightly or wrongly) brings you into conflict with a Minister will truncate your career. That includes correcting the Minister's or your bosses mistakes.
So this is what happens.
1. It finally becomes bleeding obvious even to the tea lady that an information system is broken, kaput, finished, stalled, rusted out or whatever.
2. Consultants are hired to write a request for tender document that spells out the operational requirements of the new system in great detail. This takes two years and the specifications run to four or more volumes.
3. After a further years processing, a global consultant, called ****** wins the tender with an absurdly low bid and proceeds to start work. Twenty staff are immediately ensconced in your offices. A foot is permanently jammed in the door. No one wonders why the successful tenderer didn't ask very many questions about the system during the bidding process.
4. Simultaneously, each decison maker between the project manager and the Minister are provided with a suitably chosen partner in the said consulting firm. They proceed to "get close" to their particular quarry through some very expensive lunches, attendance in the corporate box at Wimbledon, the opera, whatever it takes to ingratiate themselves. These events are monthly "to discuss progress" is the usual pretext.
A variation of this is the "It is important for the project that you must attend the conference on (insert favourite technology) we are holding in New York next week". Since middle level managers rarely get to go anywhere, this sends them into orbit and they go running to their boss armed with this recommendation on ******* letterhead.
5. Three months into the project, the designated partner explains to the project manager that the specifications for the system seem a tad outmoded (by this time of course they are four years old) and variations will be required to cope with new (work practices/Taxation laws/ insert favourite reason). This will require the project manager to take decisions - which of course the project manager cannot do without wide consultation.
6. Three weeks later, the ****** partner arrives and points out that his staff have been waiting threee weeks doing nothing waiting for the project managers decision, and casually hands him an associated invoice for thirty thousand quid for the associated dead time, remarking casually that he had seen the Minister at the opera last night and told him how swimmingly well the project was running. he also usually asks for three other decisons to be made as well, often highly technical decisions that he knows that the project manager doesn't have a clue about. The project is now going in the direction that ****** wants it to go. It becomes obvious that the original system specification is now irrelevent. It is a dead document written four years ago that has no connection with todays reality. The project manager is now in uncharted territory with only **** to guide him.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 every few weeks. Repeat step 4 when the project managment structure changes as people sense what is going on and bail out.
8. Tell the Minister and senior managers at all levels that the new system isn't going to save any money without job redesign/business process analysis/ a new IT strategy/ architecture etc., and how sad it would be if the public found out about this. Thisd brings in another army of **** consultants in HR, business process redesign etc. etc. They of course also know how to repeats steps 4,5, 6, 7 and 8.
9. It usually takes about five years before the budget is consumed. These guys and girls can suck two hundred million pounds out of a Government department very very quickly.
Firstly, remember Civil servants are highly risk averse individuals. Initiative that somehow (rightly or wrongly) brings you into conflict with a Minister will truncate your career. That includes correcting the Minister's or your bosses mistakes.
So this is what happens.
1. It finally becomes bleeding obvious even to the tea lady that an information system is broken, kaput, finished, stalled, rusted out or whatever.
2. Consultants are hired to write a request for tender document that spells out the operational requirements of the new system in great detail. This takes two years and the specifications run to four or more volumes.
3. After a further years processing, a global consultant, called ****** wins the tender with an absurdly low bid and proceeds to start work. Twenty staff are immediately ensconced in your offices. A foot is permanently jammed in the door. No one wonders why the successful tenderer didn't ask very many questions about the system during the bidding process.
4. Simultaneously, each decison maker between the project manager and the Minister are provided with a suitably chosen partner in the said consulting firm. They proceed to "get close" to their particular quarry through some very expensive lunches, attendance in the corporate box at Wimbledon, the opera, whatever it takes to ingratiate themselves. These events are monthly "to discuss progress" is the usual pretext.
A variation of this is the "It is important for the project that you must attend the conference on (insert favourite technology) we are holding in New York next week". Since middle level managers rarely get to go anywhere, this sends them into orbit and they go running to their boss armed with this recommendation on ******* letterhead.
5. Three months into the project, the designated partner explains to the project manager that the specifications for the system seem a tad outmoded (by this time of course they are four years old) and variations will be required to cope with new (work practices/Taxation laws/ insert favourite reason). This will require the project manager to take decisions - which of course the project manager cannot do without wide consultation.
6. Three weeks later, the ****** partner arrives and points out that his staff have been waiting threee weeks doing nothing waiting for the project managers decision, and casually hands him an associated invoice for thirty thousand quid for the associated dead time, remarking casually that he had seen the Minister at the opera last night and told him how swimmingly well the project was running. he also usually asks for three other decisons to be made as well, often highly technical decisions that he knows that the project manager doesn't have a clue about. The project is now going in the direction that ****** wants it to go. It becomes obvious that the original system specification is now irrelevent. It is a dead document written four years ago that has no connection with todays reality. The project manager is now in uncharted territory with only **** to guide him.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 every few weeks. Repeat step 4 when the project managment structure changes as people sense what is going on and bail out.
8. Tell the Minister and senior managers at all levels that the new system isn't going to save any money without job redesign/business process analysis/ a new IT strategy/ architecture etc., and how sad it would be if the public found out about this. Thisd brings in another army of **** consultants in HR, business process redesign etc. etc. They of course also know how to repeats steps 4,5, 6, 7 and 8.
9. It usually takes about five years before the budget is consumed. These guys and girls can suck two hundred million pounds out of a Government department very very quickly.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That'll be EDS - the company wheedling their way from supporting a number of very badly developed and maintained Army systems (which had the absoloute basics missing) into our arena. I see them everywhere and nobody regulates them. They add no value. They do not understand our values until they employ someone for that exact reason. We spend time so their consultants understand our business - so we pay them to tell the time when we already own a watch.
You can tell that I see past the smoke and mirrors - I despise them not bringing anything to the party and I see what was once good and could be better just leeched away by unregulated badly performing oafs.
I have splinters from the fence.
You can tell that I see past the smoke and mirrors - I despise them not bringing anything to the party and I see what was once good and could be better just leeched away by unregulated badly performing oafs.
I have splinters from the fence.
But EDS are not all bad. After all, they did help to sponsor the restoration of Vulcan 558.......
.....by donating the magnificient sum of ten quid.
.....by donating the magnificient sum of ten quid.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So this is what happens.
1. It finally becomes bleeding obvious even to the tea lady that an information system is broken, kaput, finished, stalled, rusted out or whatever.
2. Consultants are hired to write a request for tender document that spells out the operational requirements of the new system in great detail. This takes two years and the specifications run to four or more volumes.
Rarely in industry - if the IT system is impairing efficiency, this is far too long a period to be seeing profits eroding/losses increasing, but in the public sector there is little or no 'sense of urgency'.
3. After a further years processing, a global consultant, called ****** wins the tender with an absurdly low bid and proceeds to start work. Twenty staff are immediately ensconced in your offices. A foot is permanently jammed in the door. No one wonders why the successful tenderer didn't ask very many questions about the system during the bidding process.
Processing is delayed by the 'consensus-building' CS review process that involves every man and his dog, but never actually tries to resolve conflicting requirement issues. Also, if the PID and ITT are properly written, then the contractor with the lowest bid would be put over his submission properly but this never happens, even though 'lowest bids wins' is the oldest trick in the book.
4. Simultaneously, each decison maker between the project manager and the Minister are provided with a suitably chosen partner in the said consulting firm. They proceed to "get close" to their particular quarry through some very expensive lunches, attendance in the corporate box at Wimbledon, the opera, whatever it takes to ingratiate themselves. These events are monthly "to discuss progress" is the usual pretext.
A variation of this is the "It is important for the project that you must attend the conference on (insert favourite technology) we are holding in New York next week". Since middle level managers rarely get to go anywhere, this sends them into orbit and they go running to their boss armed with this recommendation on ******* letterhead.
Yes - seen it done many times. Again, you would think the Civil Service was wise to the process by now.
5. Three months into the project, the designated partner explains to the project manager that the specifications for the system seem a tad outmoded (by this time of course they are four years old) and variations will be required to cope with new (work practices/Taxation laws/ insert favourite reason). This will require the project manager to take decisions - which of course the project manager cannot do without wide consultation.
Poor initial specification by unqualified civil servants, hence the low bid turns out to how missed a great tranche of work to achieve what the client really, really wants - Nimrod MRA4 springs to mind.
6. Three weeks later, the ****** partner arrives and points out that his staff have been waiting threee weeks doing nothing waiting for the project managers decision, and casually hands him an associated invoice for thirty thousand quid for the associated dead time, remarking casually that he had seen the Minister at the opera last night and told him how swimmingly well the project was running. he also usually asks for three other decisons to be made as well, often highly technical decisions that he knows that the project manager doesn't have a clue about. The project is now going in the direction that ****** wants it to go. It becomes obvious that the original system specification is now irrelevent. It is a dead document written four years ago that has no connection with todays reality. The project manager is now in uncharted territory with only **** to guide him.
Caveat emptor. Should have properly constituted the programme board in the first place to get the right level of sponsor on the customer side. Untrained CS individual is now definitely out of his / her depth.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 every few weeks. Repeat step 4 when the project managment structure changes as people sense what is going on and bail out.
Yep - the DWP is especially good at this.
8. Tell the Minister and senior managers at all levels that the new system isn't going to save any money without job redesign/business process analysis/ a new IT strategy/ architecture etc., and how sad it would be if the public found out about this. Thisd brings in another army of **** consultants in HR, business process redesign etc. etc. They of course also know how to repeats steps 4,5, 6, 7 and 8.
No - better than this. Get a diferent firm of consultants to come in at great expense and QA the first lot.
9. It usually takes about five years before the budget is consumed. These guys and girls can suck two hundred million pounds out of a Government department very very quickly.
Very horrible and depressing to watch, but the consultants are there to make money. What you describe is exactly how the big firms work, it is a model that has been repeated for at least the past twenty years, so you would think by now that the Civil Service would have wised up and trained its procurement staff and project managers to cope with this, look for the warning signs....
But no, any old CS generalist will do, it is his interim posting on 'delivery' before he gets promotion to that plum SCS policy job where he doesn't have to be bothered with the real world at all and his pension is assured. Next stop, the Treasury.
I went freelance exactly because I didn't like the consulting model that says 'to be promoted you have to sell, then on-sell'. That is how senior managers in consulting firms get up the greasy pole, by winning the 'big ticket' contracts.
I'm no fan of EDS or BAe and I think PFI is the biggest con going at the minute. It's like a Japanese mortgage, indebting your children and possibly your grandchildren and leaving you with a big hole in the wallet and no assets to speak of. But it takes two to tango.
Does anyone ever have a good thing to say about consultants ??
1. It finally becomes bleeding obvious even to the tea lady that an information system is broken, kaput, finished, stalled, rusted out or whatever.
2. Consultants are hired to write a request for tender document that spells out the operational requirements of the new system in great detail. This takes two years and the specifications run to four or more volumes.
Rarely in industry - if the IT system is impairing efficiency, this is far too long a period to be seeing profits eroding/losses increasing, but in the public sector there is little or no 'sense of urgency'.
3. After a further years processing, a global consultant, called ****** wins the tender with an absurdly low bid and proceeds to start work. Twenty staff are immediately ensconced in your offices. A foot is permanently jammed in the door. No one wonders why the successful tenderer didn't ask very many questions about the system during the bidding process.
Processing is delayed by the 'consensus-building' CS review process that involves every man and his dog, but never actually tries to resolve conflicting requirement issues. Also, if the PID and ITT are properly written, then the contractor with the lowest bid would be put over his submission properly but this never happens, even though 'lowest bids wins' is the oldest trick in the book.
4. Simultaneously, each decison maker between the project manager and the Minister are provided with a suitably chosen partner in the said consulting firm. They proceed to "get close" to their particular quarry through some very expensive lunches, attendance in the corporate box at Wimbledon, the opera, whatever it takes to ingratiate themselves. These events are monthly "to discuss progress" is the usual pretext.
A variation of this is the "It is important for the project that you must attend the conference on (insert favourite technology) we are holding in New York next week". Since middle level managers rarely get to go anywhere, this sends them into orbit and they go running to their boss armed with this recommendation on ******* letterhead.
Yes - seen it done many times. Again, you would think the Civil Service was wise to the process by now.
5. Three months into the project, the designated partner explains to the project manager that the specifications for the system seem a tad outmoded (by this time of course they are four years old) and variations will be required to cope with new (work practices/Taxation laws/ insert favourite reason). This will require the project manager to take decisions - which of course the project manager cannot do without wide consultation.
Poor initial specification by unqualified civil servants, hence the low bid turns out to how missed a great tranche of work to achieve what the client really, really wants - Nimrod MRA4 springs to mind.
6. Three weeks later, the ****** partner arrives and points out that his staff have been waiting threee weeks doing nothing waiting for the project managers decision, and casually hands him an associated invoice for thirty thousand quid for the associated dead time, remarking casually that he had seen the Minister at the opera last night and told him how swimmingly well the project was running. he also usually asks for three other decisons to be made as well, often highly technical decisions that he knows that the project manager doesn't have a clue about. The project is now going in the direction that ****** wants it to go. It becomes obvious that the original system specification is now irrelevent. It is a dead document written four years ago that has no connection with todays reality. The project manager is now in uncharted territory with only **** to guide him.
Caveat emptor. Should have properly constituted the programme board in the first place to get the right level of sponsor on the customer side. Untrained CS individual is now definitely out of his / her depth.
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 every few weeks. Repeat step 4 when the project managment structure changes as people sense what is going on and bail out.
Yep - the DWP is especially good at this.
8. Tell the Minister and senior managers at all levels that the new system isn't going to save any money without job redesign/business process analysis/ a new IT strategy/ architecture etc., and how sad it would be if the public found out about this. Thisd brings in another army of **** consultants in HR, business process redesign etc. etc. They of course also know how to repeats steps 4,5, 6, 7 and 8.
No - better than this. Get a diferent firm of consultants to come in at great expense and QA the first lot.
9. It usually takes about five years before the budget is consumed. These guys and girls can suck two hundred million pounds out of a Government department very very quickly.
Very horrible and depressing to watch, but the consultants are there to make money. What you describe is exactly how the big firms work, it is a model that has been repeated for at least the past twenty years, so you would think by now that the Civil Service would have wised up and trained its procurement staff and project managers to cope with this, look for the warning signs....
But no, any old CS generalist will do, it is his interim posting on 'delivery' before he gets promotion to that plum SCS policy job where he doesn't have to be bothered with the real world at all and his pension is assured. Next stop, the Treasury.
I went freelance exactly because I didn't like the consulting model that says 'to be promoted you have to sell, then on-sell'. That is how senior managers in consulting firms get up the greasy pole, by winning the 'big ticket' contracts.
I'm no fan of EDS or BAe and I think PFI is the biggest con going at the minute. It's like a Japanese mortgage, indebting your children and possibly your grandchildren and leaving you with a big hole in the wallet and no assets to speak of. But it takes two to tango.
Does anyone ever have a good thing to say about consultants ??
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: my own, private hell
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,371
Received 116 Likes
on
83 Posts
Just a brief example of DWP concept and thinking here. My father had the audacity to die in February----after he had been sent his pension. Clearly, in the DWP's world. people only die on certain approved days. They duly sent a demand to my mother for £100.21 for reimbursement.
I filed the letter accordingly.
I filed the letter accordingly.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Up North
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The clue is in the title gents
Con & (in)sultants
They can con you out of £Millions and insult yours, someone else's or their previous work/report/reccomendations!
I used to work for DWP and EDS always seemed to suggest US vendors IT equipment and software over EU or UK, but nobody seemed to twig what was going on!
Con & (in)sultants
They can con you out of £Millions and insult yours, someone else's or their previous work/report/reccomendations!
I used to work for DWP and EDS always seemed to suggest US vendors IT equipment and software over EU or UK, but nobody seemed to twig what was going on!
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EDS by Name
That'll be EDS - the company wheedling their way from supporting a number of very badly developed and maintained Army systems (which had the absoloute basics missing) into our arena. I see them everywhere and nobody regulates them. They add no value. They do not understand our values until they employ someone for that exact reason. We spend time so their consultants understand our business - so we pay them to tell the time when we already own a watch.
You can tell that I see past the smoke and mirrors - I despise them not bringing anything to the party and I see what was once good and could be better just leeched away by unregulated badly performing oafs.
I have splinters from the fence.
You can tell that I see past the smoke and mirrors - I despise them not bringing anything to the party and I see what was once good and could be better just leeched away by unregulated badly performing oafs.
I have splinters from the fence.
The trouble is, you never knew what it would be, when it would arrive, if it was what you'd ordered or if it would work.
