Boarding School Allowance under Review

[Kitbag]

Much as I like the idea of a vote of confidence we know it won't happen when neither the Opposition or the Government backbenches have little interest or understanding of the Services, and lets face it as a shrinking group our democratic vote is rather more worthless than it used to be.

[PompeySailor]

Originally Posted by JessTheDog

I gained the impression that there were quite a few middle-ranking officers and SNOs who stayed in past their IP point because their kids were in receipt of BSA. This is a small but significant cadre of all 3 Services and, if the incentive to stay in beyond 22/38 (or whatever it is now) whilst raising a family is removed, then many will walk out.

Someone mentioned a mass PVR on this thread or another. Although the powers-that-be could deal with this under QRs by extending notice periods, the political fall-out could not be contained. If a significant percentage applied to PVR (say above 10%) then this would generate much press coverage and Parliamentary debate - perhaps leading to a vote of confidence in Browne (or whichever other nonentity it is by then).

The unfortunate thing is that a 10% PVR would only stay on the front pages until John Prescott farted at a state reception for the King of Togo (which seems to be his job, pretty much). In addition, the Forces don't have to let you take your notice out - persuading 10% of the Forces to submit notice to leave as a protest vote is dangerous ground in that you need to co-ordinate the submissions, persuade people to do it in the first place, and then hope that your name stays away from the crushers who would be hunting down the mutinous few whilst dribbling excitedly.

They have us over the proverbial barrel, and they know it, which is why we are in such ****e order, and why our Lords and Masters (uniformed) and pretty much toothless when it comes to taking on the politicos.

[LFFC]

Services pupils 'need more help'

BBC News Website

It looks like at least the Commons defence committee recognises the importance of schooling for service children.

From Mr Arbuthnot, a Conservative MP: "The Department for Education and Skills (DfES) and MoD did not seem to take the interests of service children sufficiently into account".

[LFFC]

From the Commons yesterday:

Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when the policy on continuing education allowance for service children was last reviewed; and when the policy will next be reviewed. [181068]

Derek Twigg: Continuity of education allowance (CEA) was examined in detail in 2004, in preparation for the migration from three single Service legacy delivery systems to the tri-Service Joint Personnel Administration (JPA).

CEA is also part of the strategic remuneration review (SRR), which is an over-arching review of remuneration provided to Service personnel. The SRR is due to submit its recommendations to the Defence Management Board during spring 2008.

I say, bend over and brace yourself Caruthers, I see a chap with a rather large baseball bat coming this way!

[Ann Oyd]

The importance of CEA is that it provides parents with a choice of either giving their children a stable education or having to dump them in the only school in a new posting area with spaces. These schools are usually those that all civvie parents in the area wouldn't dream of sending their children to, these schools have low results, often have severe behavour issues and are in the worst part of town. I have seen too many tours where that was the only option.

Removal of CEA would not hit the service person as much as their children and their long term education and career choices. Another reason to use the next option. You muck me about enough Brown/Broon but don't screw my children about too.

[Lima Juliet]

All I can say is "Ditto" my friend and PVR rates would go exponential - many of us are trapped in by CEA!

[Piggies]

I would imagine that if the Govt was to stop CEA, then it would be to new applicants; existing recipients would still receive it until their children leave school.

At least that's what I hope....

[knowitall]

"If you enjoy the "good fortune" of your poster's lack of a need to move you, why shouldn't the Treasury enjoy the resultant lack of a need for your bin lids to be housed and educated away from home?"

Because unless he can convince the Qman to issue him a "Ball, Crystal - For seeing of the future, MK1" how is he supposed to KNOW AT THE POINT AT WHICH HE PLACES KIDS IN SAID SCHOOL that he wont be moved at a vital point in their education, some time in the future


"If you leave know, no matter how much stability you inject into your life, your next employer is not going to cough up to educate your children.... "

they will if they pay you alot more money

[SirToppamHat]

My youngest son had been in 4 competely different UK schools by the age of 9. A more stable service life? Yeah right - all 3 of mine asked to go to boarding school.

Boarding School Trap? Well, it's not the only thing that keeps me in, but enforcing school moves every year or 2 would force me out.

I would also add that I reckon it costs me about £10K per year on top of the CEA, because whilst the CEA seems to increase very slowly, the actual fees are going up by about 8% per year, and the cost of travel to and from, school trips and all the other extras takes the total outlay way above what you might expect. My understanding was that CEA was based on the average cost of the 20 schools that are 'most popular' with service families, but I am not sure that's the case any more.

STH

[Top Right]

Rumour, rumour, rumour ..... but that's what it says at the top of the page.

Army officer mates are under the impression the question was asked last year until someone pointed out how and where 70%+ of Army officers went to school. "So you mean we may not get any more that way in future without CEA?" Got it in one. Put it to bed.

[wetdreamdriver]

'I would imagine that if the Govt was to stop CEA, then it would be to new applicants; existing recipients would still receive it until their children leave school.'


Piggies I guess the other option would be to raise the parental contribution from 10 %.
Only 1 more term to go for 1 but 4 years for the youngest! Gulp! But it is only a trap if you make it - best get that part time job up and running!

[SirToppamHat]

Piggies I guess the other option would be to raise the parental contribution from 10 %.

I am pretty sure most of those in the scheme are paying way more than 10% - remember, that's the minimum contribution.

STH

[adminblunty]

Unfortunately the CEA rules haven't kept pace with the with the changes in posting policy(airmen on notional 5 year tours and desk officers happy to leave the old and bold officer at a unit for years, I knew officers at Waddington who hadn't left the camp in 10 years, yet they claimed CEA!), or the lack of overseas postings (how many people have we got in Germany, Italy or Canada these days?)

The other fact is that 25% of the allowances budget goes towards the 3% of armed force personnel claiming CEA. Personally I'd rather see the money spent on uplifting the refund of house purchase and sale costs limit, especially as I've just spent inexcess of £15K in fees moving house!

About time it changed.

[nav attacking]

Admin Blunty

Cut the whingeing, you didn't have to own your own house. Surely you realised that you were going to get posted at some time. Maybe you should have chosen a cheaper solicitor and estate agent or just rented out!!

When it comes to CEA, the kids don't have a choice and stability is the key as far education goes, especially when most of the state schools around our bases are very lacking.

I suspect from your comments that you are without responsibilities and therefore able to chose where and, to a certain extent, when you get posted anyway. If that was the case then why the hell did you sell up, you would have been better off taking advantage of the fact you can rent out property and claim the expenses back from the services. Things may change for you once/if priorities change as kids either come along or get older.

And anyway why are you on a forum for Military Aircrew?

Moral is: Don't knock the allowances that we have but claim for better ones. There is far too much battling for a slice of what the other has. Lets battle for a bigger cake.

[NATOPotato]

adminblunty

Some of us are indeed on overseas tours. I have no chance to stay overseas long enough to use the local system for my children up to the equivalent of the GCSE (once they have mastered the new language of course), therefore they would have to move just before GCSE time. And yes, even without overseas tours, some of us are still mobile even in the RAF of today. Excluding training establishments, and moves of our own choice, we have moved 9 times in about 20 years and I am sure that this is relative stability when compared to some guys and girls. Precisely because of this instability, which had started to affect my eldest, I elected to use a boarding school education for my children. They are thriving as a result. Oh and by the way, like most of us I pay a lot more than 10% extra, which is not insignificant on a military wage, and could not afford the rest of the fees without CEA. With children in boarding school and being in reciept of CEA, I remain mobile, focused and useful to the RAF (OK, useful is subjective!).

I also have no details on what I will do or where I will be posted to in UK when I return, making planning a tad difficult without the boarding school option. I also would not wish to rip them from the boarding school on my return as they are extremely happy and settled and receiving a first-class education.

So what is your solution.

NP

P.S. It would help if JPA paid CEA on time, but thats another story!

[Whenurhappy]

Adminblunty - are you in the real world?

Adminblunty - I fear that you are the sort of chap/chapette that gives our Branch and Trade a bad name.

Yes - people have made use of the vagaries of the current system (which could be addressed without removal of the entitlement to all) but there are still a lot of relatively old (= senior) people who move A LOT. I have had 4 job changes in 4 years, plus OOAs because of my niche specialisms. If my wife didn't accompany me in SFQ, I would hardly ever see her (we have our own home, currently let); moreover, I shudder to think how my son would be coping with frequent school changes (he has SENs) if it were not for the benefits bestowed by private education and relative stability that boarding provides.

Removal of the entitlement, which could affect our younger children, will be sufficient reason for me to finally PVR.

WP

[Ken Scott]

There are plenty of people claiming CEA who haven't moved for a while, & plenty who have. Whilst it might seem that the former (myself included) are getting an allowance which they don't really strictly need, how do you differentiate between them? Who's to say, having just been disqualified from eligibility for CEA that the poster wouldn't decide to move me? The point of the allowance is to give service children stability in their education. The allowance costs £100 million per annum, which is alot & therefore a likely target for savings, but if it were removed there would be a mass exodus across all three services which would cost far more.

[South Bound]

Just depends how much they care about their people leaving. There is no doubt that CEA is a significant 'stay-in' factor for some, or rather (as has already been mentioned) that its absence would be a significant push factor. Then again, with 70-80% of Officers at their 38/16 point now choosing the leave the Service, I suppose they see it as a given that we are leaving and why should they try and retain anyone that isn't staying for other reasons.

(Aside - Be interesting to see how many mid-late 30s RAF officers will turn down ACSC because they are unwilling to extend their options...)

[Pontius Navigator]

I agree with Ken entirely.

I was lucky you might say 4 tours, 3 different stations, in 14 years, same house. BUT that included a posting to Nimwacks that didn't happen, a posting choice of Finningley or Marham, the latter certainly entailing a move. A short tour, post disestablished, the peace dividend/options for change etc.

It would have been so easy for a curved ball that would have left Miss PN1 or Miss PN2 wrong footed as far as education was concerned. In the event Miss PN2 was not suited to boarding school and PMA very kindly allowed her to withdraw without penalty.

The point is that you might serve your entire career at ISK or retain the same quarter at a secret Wiltshire base so long that you build a patio, install a shed, pool, play house etc etc as if it was your own home, but equally tomorrow you might be promoted and posted to the nether regions.

I know one sqn ldr FC, thought he would get promoted on and upward. What did he get? 12 months accompanied in FI. Wife had to leave her job and move with him. He was fortunate that the children were in a school fit for Royals

The posting was from deep field. Couldn't have happened to a nicer chap. Shared the same initials as his wife.

[blogger]

After basic training and trade training:

First tour 4 years.........Enviomental posting.
Next tour 14 years.......Choose to move contacted PMC.
Next tour 6 years Bramton/Wyton then Henlow last.

As if ground troops do a lot of moving about!

Oh and a few tours to the sand pit.

Never lived in quarters after a few years kids now both at Uni.

As for boarding school............ rather my kids knew their parents and got to spend time with them not packaged off so Mum and Dad could play on the swing Friday and Saturday night.

As for a another cut in Perks.....Labour in power.... what did you expect HTD to increase by 10%.

PVR you know it makes sence.