You've got to be kidding?
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I have been on an operational det. doing some "tasty" flying with a 23yo Captain. All the flying was safe, to a very high standard and operationally effective. Being an aircraft captain is not just about flying skills, captaincy is all about operating an aircraft. This entails many things such as CRM, knowledge of procedures, quick thinking, problem solving, safety, effective intelligence, emergency handling, flexibility and of course handling skills. Just because a pilot is 45yo doesnt mean he is the model captain, in fact it can be quite the opposite sometimes.
Anyway, rant complete
Heights good
Anyway, rant complete
Heights good
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"......with nothing more than a quick co-pilots tour under his/her belt......"
These days 1 co's tour on any AT fleet probably equates to 2 or 3 tours a few years ago, when they weren't doing month-on, month-off in highly demanding and sometimes downright dangerous operational theatres.
A co-pilots tour is an apprenticeship for captaincy. If the guys are ready then there's no point holding them back.
These days 1 co's tour on any AT fleet probably equates to 2 or 3 tours a few years ago, when they weren't doing month-on, month-off in highly demanding and sometimes downright dangerous operational theatres.
A co-pilots tour is an apprenticeship for captaincy. If the guys are ready then there's no point holding them back.
Thread Starter
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Goldcup,
thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).
Currently trying to figure out an exit strategy to this thread without missing my point(opinion), that command seems to come very early in the AT fleet, considering the diversity of missions they execute.
thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).
Currently trying to figure out an exit strategy to this thread without missing my point(opinion), that command seems to come very early in the AT fleet, considering the diversity of missions they execute.
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taxionewire, I think you have answered your own question! It is probably
which gives them the experience to command at such a young age.
Just for the record, I am jealous. I was 38 when I got my command...
the diversity of missions they execute
Just for the record, I am jealous. I was 38 when I got my command...
Lets upset the double wing mafia
I was a captain the first time around at 37 and again at 51 - and I'm not even a pilot!
The kipper fleet keep the double wing master race in their place, by only making them captains if they deserve it (rarely).
The AEO (ie me) is clearly the obvious choice for captaincy - good looks, charm and an understanding of what is going on at the real heart of the aircraft. If there is no obvious candidate from the Sqn AEOs, they choose one of the navs. If that draws a blank, they give the job to the airframe driver.
Moving my tongue out of my cheek.
Did I need a wee
The kipper fleet keep the double wing master race in their place, by only making them captains if they deserve it (rarely).
The AEO (ie me) is clearly the obvious choice for captaincy - good looks, charm and an understanding of what is going on at the real heart of the aircraft. If there is no obvious candidate from the Sqn AEOs, they choose one of the navs. If that draws a blank, they give the job to the airframe driver.
Moving my tongue out of my cheek.
Did I need a wee
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I used to work at an airline who had a 22 year old captain on the Avro RJ100.
What about during the war, alot of the crews were 18 to 24?
If you are good enough, have the hours and show that you have the qualities then who cares how old they are.
What about during the war, alot of the crews were 18 to 24?
If you are good enough, have the hours and show that you have the qualities then who cares how old they are.
The first Vulcan crew I joined only had one member over 25, the AEO was decrepit old F
t of 28.
BTW Shadwell, there are two types of AEO, good ones and I'd rather have the fuel. Top it up please...
YS
t of 28.BTW Shadwell, there are two types of AEO, good ones and I'd rather have the fuel. Top it up please...
YS
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taxionewire
Looking at your location, maybe what's worrying you is that AT pilots may now be challenging FJ pilots in the promotion game? In the recent past, AT pilots were generally promoted several years behind their FJ and RW colleagues because their time as AT co-pilot didn't really count for much - thus reducing AT mates' chances of reaching the highest ranks of the RAF.
Maybe that situation is now changing.
Looking at your location, maybe what's worrying you is that AT pilots may now be challenging FJ pilots in the promotion game? In the recent past, AT pilots were generally promoted several years behind their FJ and RW colleagues because their time as AT co-pilot didn't really count for much - thus reducing AT mates' chances of reaching the highest ranks of the RAF.
Maybe that situation is now changing.
Yellow sun
When I joined 50 Sqn (bonking dingos), I was 27 and the crew had 2 people older than me! Not many Vulcan crews had ANYONE older than the AEO.
WRT the fuel, do you want pounds, kgs or gallons
When I joined 50 Sqn (bonking dingos), I was 27 and the crew had 2 people older than me! Not many Vulcan crews had ANYONE older than the AEO.
WRT the fuel, do you want pounds, kgs or gallons
Hi Shadwell,
Don't you mean "Curtains and a Sword"? I was on the mob next door that had a "Ginger Tom Emerging From a Dustbin".
I've been using kgs for the last 20 years!
Rgds
YS
When I joined 50 Sqn (bonking dingos),
I've been using kgs for the last 20 years!
Rgds
YS
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One of the other secret 3 point tanker squadrons has had a 26yr old captain for some time now.
Of course we have the Eng with a fire axe ready to strike if he does any thing wrong, and the nav to wipe his brow when the co is flying! 
Back to the point of the thread, if the bloke in question has the requisite experience, mostly comprising of Afghan and the sand box at the moment, then he is ready for command, no matter what his age. Sounds like you ARE ageist. I guess you would like to see a old, wise looking chap with a pipe and tattered hat, instead of a young chap??
All spelling mistakes are hangover induced!
Of course we have the Eng with a fire axe ready to strike if he does any thing wrong, and the nav to wipe his brow when the co is flying! Back to the point of the thread, if the bloke in question has the requisite experience, mostly comprising of Afghan and the sand box at the moment, then he is ready for command, no matter what his age. Sounds like you ARE ageist. I guess you would like to see a old, wise looking chap with a pipe and tattered hat, instead of a young chap?? All spelling mistakes are hangover induced!
I'm sorry, I think a few people are giving the old taxionewire too much leeway for a poorly thought out post - TITLED "You've got to be kidding?". I especially like the way he's realised the foolishness of his original post and is now backtracking:
thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).
Admit the stupidity of your post or get your hand off it...
thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).
Admit the stupidity of your post or get your hand off it...
Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 28th Aug 2006 at 12:49. Reason: Thought I misspelled a word and then realised it was one of taxionewire's...
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Age is largely irrelevant....
Relevant experience, maturity and of course ability are what counts....And plenty of our twenty-something aircrew have this in abundance, particularly in the recent RAF..
We have a (albeit small) number of under-30 yr old captains on the AWACS, and despite the large crew and high price tag (£250million a piece) age did not come into the boarding process at all...
Nice backtracking though - call when clear of the active!
Relevant experience, maturity and of course ability are what counts....And plenty of our twenty-something aircrew have this in abundance, particularly in the recent RAF..
We have a (albeit small) number of under-30 yr old captains on the AWACS, and despite the large crew and high price tag (£250million a piece) age did not come into the boarding process at all...
Nice backtracking though - call when clear of the active!
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The RAF is getting younger, or at least it would seem. Certainly in the SAR crewroom the average age has dropped, even over the last 5 years. In this environment experience is valuable but a rookie crew will still get the job done safely; it may take them a little longer but who cares if lives are saved. I was a Fg Off Op Capt at 26 and this is normal especially umongst non-graduates (perhaps a little older for those who spent 3 years sponging off the government). Age doesn't matter!!
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I agree with those who think we've given too much leeway to the original poster's poorly thought through thread. Age is irrelevant, and I cannot see what his original point actually was. Maybe that's because I am a sub 30 Nimrod Captain and I am not wise enough to understand his complicated argument. I have met as many crap old & bold skippers on all fleets as I have young ones. That's the RAF's strength, we are by and large, a force based on merit and ability. Long may it continue.
Admittedly I wasn't a pilot but I arrived on my first squadron on my 17th birthday. Not long after that I was doing AF & BF's all on my own (Phantoms it was) and responsible for the aircraft and the lives of the crew. The point is that in the forces, 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'
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I was given captaincy on the C130 at 27. At the time, several people had commands at a younger age; the youngest I'm aware of was 21. I recently gained a command in my second career at 50. Looking back, I think I was rather better then than I am now...!
Scroggs
Scroggs
