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There should be no excuse by some that it was vital to do their paperwork.
How about an extended lunch break on 2-3 days per week? Sport would be properly monitored and could take a variety of forms - volleyball for 30 minutes, or 5-a-side, or for those who are at a loss a 20 minute run over a designated course.
Timing is important as an end-of-shift sport would be seen as an infringement. OTOH that vital paperwork could be done at the end of the day.
How about an extended lunch break on 2-3 days per week? Sport would be properly monitored and could take a variety of forms - volleyball for 30 minutes, or 5-a-side, or for those who are at a loss a 20 minute run over a designated course.
Timing is important as an end-of-shift sport would be seen as an infringement. OTOH that vital paperwork could be done at the end of the day.
You lot at places like Cranwell will be able to put your vital paperwork down and nip to the gym for an extended lunch break to do the oh so important phys. But then again it wont affect you will it...............
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Don't be so *****y obtuse. The purpose of the fitness training is to get fit to deploy and not a ******y marathon for the people in theatre. In theatre the fit, by definition, might do sport for recreation if it is possible.
So how about all those non blunties that are doing a real job in theatre already? Do they just land their Chinook/Puma/Merlin/Hercules and have an extended lunch break to do phys? Or do engineers, already in theatre, stop servicing those vital aircraft so that they can have an extended lunch break to do phys? It is funny how after being in Iraq for a few years now some blunty in shorts from the gym thinks it is a good idea if we suddenly start being able to lift sandbags into a four tonner. You never know there might be a war in the desert.
You lot at places like Cranwell will be able to put your vital paperwork down and nip to the gym for an extended lunch break to do the oh so important phys. But then again it wont affect you will it...............
You lot at places like Cranwell will be able to put your vital paperwork down and nip to the gym for an extended lunch break to do the oh so important phys. But then again it wont affect you will it...............
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So why have the people at the top, who it wont affect either, suddenly decided after alll this time the RAF needs another physical test? The OFT will do more damage than good. You cant make it gender or height specific because that is sex discrimination. As I said above it wont affect you so you shouldn't be worrying about it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
. As I said above it wont affect you so you shouldn't be worrying about it.
You know my responsibilities?
I care and I care for my men.
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You are just after a longer lunch.................. 
You didnt answer my question,why have the people at the top suddenly decided after all this time the RAF needs another physical test?
You didnt answer my question,why have the people at the top suddenly decided after all this time the RAF needs another physical test?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And why have their airships suddenly decided that we need to get fit? No idea except the man at the top has changed. Did is kick off with Brian Burridge in the chair or after he left?
There is absolutely nothing wrong in 'fit to fight' and, as I said earlier, it has been kicking around since the 60s but never had consistent support from the top. As soon as Charles Maughan departed as STC COS the whole thing died. Same with no flying suits off the flight line. Same with QFE/QNH. Total lack of consistency.
Now we have a new system and a legacy fitness regime. We have unfit personnel and we have no scheduled time for them to get fit.
The new regime, for whatever reason it has been introduced, must have credibility, consistency and be applied with continuity - just like the CCS which has been running more than 20 years.
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You say we have unfit personel. Unfit to do what exactly? Sit in an aircraft? fix said aircraft? Sit in an office in a HQ somehwere in theatre? Why are they stalling now about the OFT? Scared because they will be sued?
I bet you would love a longer lunch..............Just like the poor buggers in theatre...................
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
That will be the CCS that the airships do aswell...........................
You say we have unfit personel. Unfit to do what exactly? Sit in an aircraft? fix said aircraft? Sit in an office in a HQ somehwere in theatre? Why are they stalling now about the OFT? Scared because they will be sued?
I bet you would love a longer lunch..............Just like the poor buggers in theatre...................
You say we have unfit personel. Unfit to do what exactly? Sit in an aircraft? fix said aircraft? Sit in an office in a HQ somehwere in theatre? Why are they stalling now about the OFT? Scared because they will be sued?
I bet you would love a longer lunch..............Just like the poor buggers in theatre...................
As for fit to do what? Fit to survive the heat perhaps? Fit to lift a holdall or rucksack. Yup THAT fit.
Sued? My rumour mill suggested that you needed a medic on hand to deal with cuts, bruises, cuts and sprains. You also need a manual handling course with proper instruction on how to fill, lift, and stack a sandbag.
Is the love affair with the OFT simply a love affair with the TLA - BFT, CFT, OFT? They are latched on firmly to the T-word. It was mentioned somewhere earlier that CCS was originally instruction and not simply a TEST.
My suggestion was more related to the training bit. Any sort of regular mandatory fitness training and not mission specific. That would satisfy your question - fit for what? Remember I also mentioned 'fit to survive'.
So, fit to survive the heat, fit to carry (luggage), fit to walk, fit to embus and debus, fit to move from aircon to oven heat.
Been there, done that - fit to get out of an aircraft at 140 deg and survive the cold at 95 deg. The Tiger beer was welcome too.
Hellbound
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There is no reasoned argument against a fitness test of some sort (we have all despaired at the 25 year olds that can't pass the RAFFT), so stop whining about it. Perhaps you would care to suggest an alternative.
Personally, I believe the test needs to demonstrate strength and endurance above all else - the CFT gets my vote anyday, but we MUST allow our people the time to train...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
and, as I stressed this must not be an end of day 'easy' option. It must be made easy to do not easy to miss.
Mind you, our whole gymnasium infrastructure needs an overhaul.
The AE House at Keflavik, 30 years ago, was a multi-hall, hangar sized facility with raquet courts, ball courts, weight rooms, pool etc. Residents would pay and hire a locker so no dragging kit around. It was easy to use and invariably a hive of activity.
What does an RAF gym offer? A small changing room open to all and about large enough to accommodate a small section. Showers? Joke. Facilities? Gym hall large enough for a single ball game. Weight room big enough for half a dozen or so.
Mind you, our whole gymnasium infrastructure needs an overhaul.
The AE House at Keflavik, 30 years ago, was a multi-hall, hangar sized facility with raquet courts, ball courts, weight rooms, pool etc. Residents would pay and hire a locker so no dragging kit around. It was easy to use and invariably a hive of activity.
What does an RAF gym offer? A small changing room open to all and about large enough to accommodate a small section. Showers? Joke. Facilities? Gym hall large enough for a single ball game. Weight room big enough for half a dozen or so.
Hellbound
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Agreed, there needs to be a fundamental review of our fitness policy, rather than just how we test it. I work at a joint Unit where I regularly see the green element CFT'ing, doing morning section runs etc as a group. Somehow we must build this kind of structured activity into our working week - if that means we don't start flying until 1100 twice a week, then so be it, but we have to stop paying lip-service to getting our guys fit. At the moment the message is very mixed - yes we want you to be fit, but we also want you to concentrate on your primary role and you will have to work on fitness yourself....
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The fact that we need 'a standard' is beyond discussion for those who apply common sense to todays expeditionary manning challenges. No one test will appease the masses and leadership is not a popularity contest, if the OFT is non descriminatory and sets a common standard then I am all for it. If a 5ft 2 male or female cannot lift a sandbag to chest height and is fit in all other respects then a view has to be taken. If they are so short that they cannot see over a parapet to fire their weapon that is another problem. With the shortage of personnel that we are currently facing people are being taken out of trade to do jobs like driver escort etc and if an ambush takes place then trust me, adrenalin, although a great motivator will not help an individual sustain him/herself in combat. That is why the Army have CO's runs and mandatory phys.
I introduced longer lunch hours and massaged shift handover times for my staff in an effort to give them time in their normal day to attend circuit training and have time for lunch (1 1/2 hrs) not one of them took up the offer and believe me when I say one of the females hasnt seen her feet whilst standing up for a long time. They can now do it in their own time as far as I am concerned.
We need a test, it needs to be non descriminatory and if people hurt themsellves doing it then (in reality) they had failed to prepare - its time they learnt to wipe their own arse not ask the military to do it for them.
Movadinkampa - It is the very attitude that you spout which fuels the lame and lazy not to bother with their physical ability to conduct arduous duties outside the office for the benefit of all those deployed as a whole. We (The services) dont have to reflect the society that we protect, we have to be better than that. If you can be arsed,why not come into theatre and go on convoy in an unarmoured vehicle and no aircon with 25lb of bodyarmour, Weapons, ammo, Ops vest and helmet, then dismount and stag on waiting for EOD to pitch up for 4 hrs - I am light blue and have an office job out here but was caught out. Some people even fail the predeployment OPTAG cos they arent even fit enough to do the training and that means someone else has to pick up their place in theatre or someone has to remain longer in post. Stop bleating about decisions taken at the top and be a team player.
I introduced longer lunch hours and massaged shift handover times for my staff in an effort to give them time in their normal day to attend circuit training and have time for lunch (1 1/2 hrs) not one of them took up the offer and believe me when I say one of the females hasnt seen her feet whilst standing up for a long time. They can now do it in their own time as far as I am concerned.
We need a test, it needs to be non descriminatory and if people hurt themsellves doing it then (in reality) they had failed to prepare - its time they learnt to wipe their own arse not ask the military to do it for them.
Movadinkampa - It is the very attitude that you spout which fuels the lame and lazy not to bother with their physical ability to conduct arduous duties outside the office for the benefit of all those deployed as a whole. We (The services) dont have to reflect the society that we protect, we have to be better than that. If you can be arsed,why not come into theatre and go on convoy in an unarmoured vehicle and no aircon with 25lb of bodyarmour, Weapons, ammo, Ops vest and helmet, then dismount and stag on waiting for EOD to pitch up for 4 hrs - I am light blue and have an office job out here but was caught out. Some people even fail the predeployment OPTAG cos they arent even fit enough to do the training and that means someone else has to pick up their place in theatre or someone has to remain longer in post. Stop bleating about decisions taken at the top and be a team player.
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In my experience, the poor attitude to fitness has, IMHO, more to do with the poor leadership from the top of sections than the PEd Branch. Good bosses manage to find the time for their people to go to the gym/ play sports on Wed pm. Those who aren't good bosses invariably don't.
Squadrons do not stop just to go to the Gym, I would invite any of you to do a 12 hour shift on any flying Squadron, with maybe 3 aircraft inbound, 2-3 outbound and then throw in MCT, IRT oh and of course servicing and rectification.
Extended lunch breaks? A lunch break would be nice some days.
I introduced longer lunch hours and massaged shift handover times for my staff in an effort to give them time in their normal day to attend circuit training and have time for lunch (1 1/2 hrs) not one of them took up the offer and believe me when I say one of the females hasnt seen her feet whilst standing up for a long time. They can now do it in their own time as far as I am concerned.
I say one of the females hasnt seen her feet whilst standing up for a long time.
Phoned any deskys about her recently? I hope she dont read this forum.
Hellbound
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Piggy, relax - SLC is just saying that we must make time for compulsory Phys to get certain people up to an acceptable level. The problems of sqns working around a flying programme are clearly covered above - that will require a commitment of 'downtime' at Unit or Group level. Perhaps we could all do phys one afternoon a week, I wonder why noone has thought of that before....
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Ahhh, it's nice to be dismissive of the 'Cold War mob' - during the time when Ivan was expected over the hedge at any time most RAF units did maxivals etc - I could run (and did) around all day with an LMG (which by no stretch of the imagination was light) My oppo could hardly drag her SMG out of the armoury without breaking into a sweat. Who was the fittest?
Fast forward 15 years, said oppo could walk (literally) the beep test, Maple was a dismal failure, but was now capable of lugging a GPMG around like a good'un. Who was the fittest?
So what does the fitness test actually test?
I missed the joy of the OFT or whatever it's called but I expect it will also produce similar iffy results - still, gives the mirror techs something to feel important about. Do those that fail the test not go on deployment?
Fast forward 15 years, said oppo could walk (literally) the beep test, Maple was a dismal failure, but was now capable of lugging a GPMG around like a good'un. Who was the fittest?
So what does the fitness test actually test?
I missed the joy of the OFT or whatever it's called but I expect it will also produce similar iffy results - still, gives the mirror techs something to feel important about. Do those that fail the test not go on deployment?
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Mapes
you have hit the nail on the head, old boy. The problem with any generic test is that it is fairly unrepresentative of likely tasks for the majority of personnel. Hence a lot of frustration about relevance etc.
If one's job is to load 4-tonners or fill sand-bags, cool, test those skills. If it is to run away bravely after ditching behind Taleban lines, perhaps a 10K cross-country would be better. It is just a shame that we don't have (and never will) the flexibility to tailor fitness and testing according to a person's war role with some basic levels of strength/general fitness thrown in. Any test will always be a compromise.
I just think that we have plenty of seriously unhealthy (let alone unfit) people in the RAF at the moment and we must get serious about sorting out their fitness...
you have hit the nail on the head, old boy. The problem with any generic test is that it is fairly unrepresentative of likely tasks for the majority of personnel. Hence a lot of frustration about relevance etc.
If one's job is to load 4-tonners or fill sand-bags, cool, test those skills. If it is to run away bravely after ditching behind Taleban lines, perhaps a 10K cross-country would be better. It is just a shame that we don't have (and never will) the flexibility to tailor fitness and testing according to a person's war role with some basic levels of strength/general fitness thrown in. Any test will always be a compromise.
I just think that we have plenty of seriously unhealthy (let alone unfit) people in the RAF at the moment and we must get serious about sorting out their fitness...
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SLC is just saying that we must make time for compulsory Phys to get certain people up to an acceptable level. The problems of sqns working around a flying programme are clearly covered above - that will require a commitment of 'downtime' at Unit or Group level. Perhaps we could all do phys one afternoon a week, I wonder why noone has thought of that before....
Maybe Benson, Odiham, Brize and Lyneham could ask Group if the tasking could be cancelled once a week so everybody could do phys. Please come back into the real world.
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Sorry, can’t resist climbing on my particular soap box and at the risk of repeating myself...
Age and expanding waist line necessitates spending longer in the gym than used to be necessary. The inevitable happens and I hurt myself (doing something I’ve done many times before including at the particular National Championships). Nothing life threatening but it requires hospitalisation and surgery to repair. Report sick in February and the earliest the local NHS hospital will operate is the coming November. Now surely if I am required to maintain a level of fitness the military also have a similar responsibility to keep me there and that includes fixing me when I am broken. Currently I am in constant discomfort, out of fitness test and CCS and am consequently not deployable – where’s the sense in that?
<RANT OFF> but still bloody pi$$ed off!
Age and expanding waist line necessitates spending longer in the gym than used to be necessary. The inevitable happens and I hurt myself (doing something I’ve done many times before including at the particular National Championships). Nothing life threatening but it requires hospitalisation and surgery to repair. Report sick in February and the earliest the local NHS hospital will operate is the coming November. Now surely if I am required to maintain a level of fitness the military also have a similar responsibility to keep me there and that includes fixing me when I am broken. Currently I am in constant discomfort, out of fitness test and CCS and am consequently not deployable – where’s the sense in that?
<RANT OFF> but still bloody pi$$ed off!