Birdstrike
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Now now ladies
Seems a bit odd that a hawk from Leeming would not go back there in favour of DTVA, which is only about 10-15 miles as the crow flies where there are nice shiney RAF fire engines, hawk engineers etc. Unless of course the donk stopped which might have decided it for them!
Seems a bit odd that a hawk from Leeming would not go back there in favour of DTVA, which is only about 10-15 miles as the crow flies where there are nice shiney RAF fire engines, hawk engineers etc. Unless of course the donk stopped which might have decided it for them!
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Fox2long.
Many thanks for your posts, both of interest and utterly in keeping with the whole point and ethos of the forum. Sorry you had to pick up such a petulant and unnecessary first reply.
Regards,
orca.
Many thanks for your posts, both of interest and utterly in keeping with the whole point and ethos of the forum. Sorry you had to pick up such a petulant and unnecessary first reply.
Regards,
orca.
Seems a bit odd that some members of the forum figure that the aircrew on board the emergency jet probably should have carried out different actions, and gone to different diversions, based on their own knowledge of the world right now, and not what was actually happening in that aircraft at that time.
DS, I hope that you don't run the investigation - because if you are I'm sure that you'd already have decided the outcome.
DS, I hope that you don't run the investigation - because if you are I'm sure that you'd already have decided the outcome.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Originally Posted by Runaway Gun
Seems a bit odd that some members of the forum figure that the aircrew on board the emergency jet probably should have carried out different actions, and gone to different diversions, based on their own knowledge of the world right now, and not what was actually happening in that aircraft at that time.
Originally Posted by Runaway Gun
DS, I hope that you don't run the investigation - because if you are I'm sure that you'd already have decided the outcome.
Blunty
Yeah, I bit too hard there I guess. It was a dig.
I'm just a bit annoyed when other crew criticise what the actual operators do, without necessarily knowing all the facts. There is a tendency for guys to say "Well, I wouldn't ave done whatever he did...", which I think is very unfair.
By all means discuss accidents, and learn from them, and prevent others making similar mistakes. But did this crew make a mistake? I don't know, and am not about to speculate. They got the jet down safely, even more importantly they got themselves down safely. Gold endorsement please.
I'm just a bit annoyed when other crew criticise what the actual operators do, without necessarily knowing all the facts. There is a tendency for guys to say "Well, I wouldn't ave done whatever he did...", which I think is very unfair.
By all means discuss accidents, and learn from them, and prevent others making similar mistakes. But did this crew make a mistake? I don't know, and am not about to speculate. They got the jet down safely, even more importantly they got themselves down safely. Gold endorsement please.
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Fair one, which raises the question: What would you have done?
Personally, I would have gone for the nearest available, civvy in this case. My thinking is that if you've had a birdstrike you don't really know what's broken, what's about to go and what is okay from inside the cockpit, so land it as soon as possible (as opposed to as soon as practicable, FRC geeks!). I have visions of trying to push the extra 10 miles, only to have a pannel come off at 5 miles and leap down an intake.
Of course, if the nav in the back bangs you out, it's all a bit accademic!
Blunty
Personally, I would have gone for the nearest available, civvy in this case. My thinking is that if you've had a birdstrike you don't really know what's broken, what's about to go and what is okay from inside the cockpit, so land it as soon as possible (as opposed to as soon as practicable, FRC geeks!). I have visions of trying to push the extra 10 miles, only to have a pannel come off at 5 miles and leap down an intake.
Of course, if the nav in the back bangs you out, it's all a bit accademic!
Blunty
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As far as i'm aware the bird cracked or shattered the canopy in the back, so that's maybe why they chose the nearest.
Glad to see it created a sensible debate compared to the first reply.
Glad to see it created a sensible debate compared to the first reply.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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The aircraft had been on a low level nav-ex when, during a right hand turn, they hit what seems to have been at least 2 birds. The canopy was shattered in both cockpits - blood and meat and feathers all over the blast screen and covered both crew - lots of mess in each cockpit.
I heard that the biggest problem they had was the unbearable noise in the cockpit after the canopy went and 420kts of wind hit them in the face! Communications obviously became a problem in the immediate aftermath - could hardly hear themselves speaking.
In what must have been an extremely frightening few minutes after the event - both crew members kept their cool and let the training do its magic! The stude in the back has a relatively small amount of experience on fast jets and he coped with the situation admirably. I imagine it would be tempting to pull the handle when all you can see is blood and guts (in this case the birds' blood and guts) where your pilot once was! Well done to them both.
P.S. At least the bird strike risk in North Yorkshire is a little lower now!
Sense1
I heard that the biggest problem they had was the unbearable noise in the cockpit after the canopy went and 420kts of wind hit them in the face! Communications obviously became a problem in the immediate aftermath - could hardly hear themselves speaking.
In what must have been an extremely frightening few minutes after the event - both crew members kept their cool and let the training do its magic! The stude in the back has a relatively small amount of experience on fast jets and he coped with the situation admirably. I imagine it would be tempting to pull the handle when all you can see is blood and guts (in this case the birds' blood and guts) where your pilot once was! Well done to them both.
P.S. At least the bird strike risk in North Yorkshire is a little lower now!
Sense1
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There is a similar incident here in Canada with a Hawk during a training flight. Happend during takeoff, Instructor and Stu had to eject. There is a 30sec or so video cut from the cockpit camera. Please check out the link provided.
Cheers.
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/287/
If the link doesn't work, go to the home page of patricksavaiton and search for "bird strike".
Cheers.
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/287/
If the link doesn't work, go to the home page of patricksavaiton and search for "bird strike".
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Runaway Gob
If you re-read my post it was idle gossip on the likely seriousness about the incident which made the crew go to DTVA vice Leeming, look on a map at their proximity and you might understand why I made the comment.
Wasn't drawing conclusions or criticising in any way, shape or form
Who sneezed on your pasty?
DS
If you re-read my post it was idle gossip on the likely seriousness about the incident which made the crew go to DTVA vice Leeming, look on a map at their proximity and you might understand why I made the comment.
Wasn't drawing conclusions or criticising in any way, shape or form
Who sneezed on your pasty?
DS
My only concern (and without knowing full details, so no criticism - implied or otherwise) is the comment "chose nearest function on the GPS". There's just a hint of "well that's what the kit said so we did it" about that for me.
My concern is not for this crew or incident, as I say I don't know enough details, but someone please tell me we're not going down that path.
My concern is not for this crew or incident, as I say I don't know enough details, but someone please tell me we're not going down that path.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Come on Flaps, you have just had your sun roof kicked in your world is going to hell in a hand cart and you have a simple choice to make.......
Follow the kit or take a steer from the nav............it's a no brainer really
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Follow the kit or take a steer from the nav............it's a no brainer really
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Jan 2006
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A question from a civvie.
With regards to an earlier posting about the student keeping his head and not ejecting I am now wondering - If one of the crew chooses to eject, does this automatically eject the other?
I'm also guessing there must be some sort of 'phasing' to reduce the risk of both seats/crew affecting each other?
With regards to an earlier posting about the student keeping his head and not ejecting I am now wondering - If one of the crew chooses to eject, does this automatically eject the other?
I'm also guessing there must be some sort of 'phasing' to reduce the risk of both seats/crew affecting each other?
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For the Hawk it depends on where the Command Eject lever is. 100 Sqn, or rather the Nav Training Unit (as was the case in this incident it would appear), has had a couple of similar incidents to this in the past. The first one ended with the nav student ejecting the pilot because the Command Eject Lever was in both (as apposed to Rear) – the normal is position is ‘Both’ unless there is a non-aircrew passenger in the back seat.
The has been a great deal of discussion on the position of the Command Eject Lever in RAF FJ ac. I believe it is now left up to the Captain where he wants to put it, but for my money always have it 'Both' unless there is a non aircrew bod in the back seat.
There is phasing and also each seat is cantered off to one side.
The has been a great deal of discussion on the position of the Command Eject Lever in RAF FJ ac. I believe it is now left up to the Captain where he wants to put it, but for my money always have it 'Both' unless there is a non aircrew bod in the back seat.
There is phasing and also each seat is cantered off to one side.