Civvy RT
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Hello High Expect... I follow the R/T procedures and phraseology as I have been taught and learnt. I do find the mil r/t very concise and in comparison to the usual civvy r/t it can feel unusual to me. Please don't criticise me for sharing my opinion and experiences- it is far from a "wealth of knowledge" and whilst I am vastly inexperienced in comparison to yourself, I should not be afraid to post. Furthermore- I in no way suggested anything about changing procedures or sending any "nuggets" to CFS- I am not so obtuse to be ignorant of my position. May I boldly suggest you "cool your jets" 
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
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snafu, that message earlier about the sh!t joke telling guy inbound from uzbehkistan sounds crazy. i think iv heard him too, cos i was listening in to full sutton radio, and he asked the controller, who im guessing he knew, 'what would you rather be.......or a wasp?' most definatley a fool.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Private Civvy is more often than not long winded and irrelevant, but there is still the odd Military guy who calls in with Ac Type, Position, Altitude, Persons on Board, Type of Engagement, Pension plan, JPA password, Number of late meals booked and whether or not any veggie meals included, favorite colour and wife's nickname, only to get;
Controller: Bloggs 123, Request Type of Service?
Bloggs 123: Uuuuuh, Standby.
Controller: Bloggs 123, Request Type of Service?
Bloggs 123: Uuuuuh, Standby.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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I heard a funny one from a 'Reach' c/s the other day...
London Mil - "Reach __, what type of service on leaving the upper air?"
Reach__ - "What yall got?"
London Mil - "Well...err..we can offer you a radar information service or there is a radar advisory service...err...
Reach__ - "That first one sounds pretty good..."
London Mil - "Reach __, what type of service on leaving the upper air?"
Reach__ - "What yall got?"
London Mil - "Well...err..we can offer you a radar information service or there is a radar advisory service...err...
Reach__ - "That first one sounds pretty good..."
Then there is the allegedly true story of the RAF Hercules asked by Brize Norton ATC what type of service was required........
The reply was something along the lines of ...'the usual p*ss poor one will be fine'.....
The Herc captain got in a bit pooh for that one apparently!
The reply was something along the lines of ...'the usual p*ss poor one will be fine'.....
The Herc captain got in a bit pooh for that one apparently!
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I've heard bad RT from both but must confess that nowadays my side - the civvies do seem to waffle after having hit the PTT without knowing what they are going to say!
A few weeks ago (actually 23/6) I heard an absolute blinder:- late Friday afternoon and I'm transiting Lakenheath on my way to the South West. I'm fat, dumb and happy having been radar id'd and I'm listening to a new voice that has just popped up on freq and been told to squawk and ident.
"Errrr, umm, Lakenheath Zone, G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A squawk 4602. G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A is a Piper PA28-161, two persons on board from Norwich to Norwich, via Attleborough, Swaffham, Kings Lynn, Downham Market, Thetford, Snetterton, Hethel, Norwich. Three hours endurance and I'm currently 4 miles south east of errrr, ummm............ Attlebridge. No sorry, south west of Attlebridge at 2200' on 1016."
Lakenheath, "G-CD, radar identified, Lakenheath QNH 1011. Remain clear of Lakenheath and Mildenhall ATZ."
"G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A Lakenheath QNH 1011 and will remain clear of Lakenheath and Mildenhall ATZ."
Two minutes later:
Lakenheath: G-CD, two F16s right to left your 3 o'clock at 7,000'.
G-CD: Ah Lakenheath, my passenger has the traffic in sight. Would they like to come by and say hello?
Lakenheath: G-CD, excuse me Sir, are you saying that you'd like the two jets to fly past you?
G-CD: Yes, please - we could wave at them and my passenger could take some photos that we could send them later.
L'heath: G-CD that's a negative they are doing a procedure recovery.
G-CD: Oh well never mind, maybe another time.
L'heath: G-CD you are now approaching the edge of my zone, squawk 7000 and frequency change approved.
G-CD: Thank you!
I really was wetting myself at this stage as the Septic controller had £ucked them off as soon as he could.
A few weeks ago (actually 23/6) I heard an absolute blinder:- late Friday afternoon and I'm transiting Lakenheath on my way to the South West. I'm fat, dumb and happy having been radar id'd and I'm listening to a new voice that has just popped up on freq and been told to squawk and ident.
"Errrr, umm, Lakenheath Zone, G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A squawk 4602. G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A is a Piper PA28-161, two persons on board from Norwich to Norwich, via Attleborough, Swaffham, Kings Lynn, Downham Market, Thetford, Snetterton, Hethel, Norwich. Three hours endurance and I'm currently 4 miles south east of errrr, ummm............ Attlebridge. No sorry, south west of Attlebridge at 2200' on 1016."
Lakenheath, "G-CD, radar identified, Lakenheath QNH 1011. Remain clear of Lakenheath and Mildenhall ATZ."
"G O L F A L F A B R A VO C H A R L I E D E L T A Lakenheath QNH 1011 and will remain clear of Lakenheath and Mildenhall ATZ."
Two minutes later:
Lakenheath: G-CD, two F16s right to left your 3 o'clock at 7,000'.
G-CD: Ah Lakenheath, my passenger has the traffic in sight. Would they like to come by and say hello?
Lakenheath: G-CD, excuse me Sir, are you saying that you'd like the two jets to fly past you?
G-CD: Yes, please - we could wave at them and my passenger could take some photos that we could send them later.
L'heath: G-CD that's a negative they are doing a procedure recovery.
G-CD: Oh well never mind, maybe another time.
L'heath: G-CD you are now approaching the edge of my zone, squawk 7000 and frequency change approved.
G-CD: Thank you!
I really was wetting myself at this stage as the Septic controller had £ucked them off as soon as he could.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Sixteen year old female ATC Cadet on her first solo circuit at Cosford earlier this year.
"Alpha six.......................Oh I cant remember my f*****g callsign but I'm downwind to land.
"Alpha six.......................Oh I cant remember my f*****g callsign but I'm downwind to land.
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If you read the CAA RT manual and then add a very low time student pilot who is trying to use the RT as the manual states you will soon see why the some of the RT in light aviation is so long winded, with only 15-20 hours on the aircraft I think that some of you would have not been much better if you had the CAA manual to work from.
The three things that realy get me pi**ed off are :-
1 the people who dont listen out before transmitting and step on the middle of a readback.
2 Opening the transmition with "speedwing 123 with you" what in the hell is this "with you" thing ?
3 The reply to an SSR code " 7001 coming down"
All of these are common to the airlines in the UK and the not listening out is becoming a real problem, perhaps people will learn that one transmition at the right time takes less time than having to say it all twice because the first message was lost by stepping on another transmition.
The three things that realy get me pi**ed off are :-
1 the people who dont listen out before transmitting and step on the middle of a readback.
2 Opening the transmition with "speedwing 123 with you" what in the hell is this "with you" thing ?
3 The reply to an SSR code " 7001 coming down"
All of these are common to the airlines in the UK and the not listening out is becoming a real problem, perhaps people will learn that one transmition at the right time takes less time than having to say it all twice because the first message was lost by stepping on another transmition.
Avoid imitations
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(Ex mil now civvie). Trouble is, a lot of folks are taught more or less what to say but they AREN'T taught what NOT to say. 
Yesterday was a bit of a 'mare on the R/T, especially Coventry and Luton as it was extremely busy and very difficult to get a word in edgeways. However, a lot of transitting pilots seemed to be competing to tell ATC just about everything apart from the colour of their socks.
E.G. "G-****. I have now just seen two aircraft pass on my left hand side!" (Under a FIS in Class G).
I wasn't alone in saying "Fer Christ's sake, shut the F*** up!" or "Yes, very nice, thanks a lot for telling us that" more than once without pressing the button.
Yesterday was a bit of a 'mare on the R/T, especially Coventry and Luton as it was extremely busy and very difficult to get a word in edgeways. However, a lot of transitting pilots seemed to be competing to tell ATC just about everything apart from the colour of their socks.
E.G. "G-****. I have now just seen two aircraft pass on my left hand side!" (Under a FIS in Class G).
I wasn't alone in saying "Fer Christ's sake, shut the F*** up!" or "Yes, very nice, thanks a lot for telling us that" more than once without pressing the button.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I operate a radio, albeit not an aviation one and we have the same problems. To a large degree it depends on the instructor. If he/she allows waffle, thats what the student will speak.
We have operators in my control room who will read a complete serial to a unit. When someone's getting his head kicked in you don't need to tell the police officers that are going that its all over some stupid argument that happened last year.
We have operators in my control room who will read a complete serial to a unit. When someone's getting his head kicked in you don't need to tell the police officers that are going that its all over some stupid argument that happened last year.
Ahh yes, Reach callsigns. Assorted responses to my asking what type of radar service they require have included:
a"n ILS please?"
"some fuel and a screen wash" (unfortunately he was serious)
and my own personal favourite,
"can I have the full service please?" to which I wittily responded, "would you like some coffee with that?" Obviously septic didn't have a clue and asked whether that was the famous British sense of humour.
Getting back to the thread, the worst civvy RT I ever heard was from a Lufthansa captain in an A340, departing Newcastle and flying through the Vale of York (clever chap!). When given avoiding action against the pop up fast-jet contact in his 12 o'clock 6 miles climbing hard right at him, his reply was...
"Vot? Ve are on-route civil traffic. I am not going to move, I haf passengers. Tell ze other aircraft to move out of my way."
"no, no" quoth I "you are deluded and you'd better turn fast if you wish to avoid serious embarassment."
"Ahh, yes, I see him now on TCAS and you are right. I shall turn as you say!"
Oh how we laughed after filling out all the paperwork....
c*&^s
a"n ILS please?"
"some fuel and a screen wash" (unfortunately he was serious)
and my own personal favourite,
"can I have the full service please?" to which I wittily responded, "would you like some coffee with that?" Obviously septic didn't have a clue and asked whether that was the famous British sense of humour.
Getting back to the thread, the worst civvy RT I ever heard was from a Lufthansa captain in an A340, departing Newcastle and flying through the Vale of York (clever chap!). When given avoiding action against the pop up fast-jet contact in his 12 o'clock 6 miles climbing hard right at him, his reply was...
"Vot? Ve are on-route civil traffic. I am not going to move, I haf passengers. Tell ze other aircraft to move out of my way."
"no, no" quoth I "you are deluded and you'd better turn fast if you wish to avoid serious embarassment."
"Ahh, yes, I see him now on TCAS and you are right. I shall turn as you say!"
Oh how we laughed after filling out all the paperwork....
c*&^s
Join Date: Jan 2003
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OK, so if mil pilots are so great at R/T what about the two tucanos at EGKB on saturday? Arriving fom the east given an overhead join, right hand, downwind for 21 only to continue their right hand turn till they were heading east again straght into the path of a C303 that was following the correct procedure. Cessna had to take avoiding action so that the two tucanos could now join left hand to land. If as I suspect, tucanos on a display detail are flown by instuctors this does'nt say much for the quality of R/t and airmanship in her majestsy's flying club. Surely knowing left from right is fairly fundermental in gaining an instructer rating?
JB
JB
No instructer ratings (or instuctors) in the RAF, they only rate instructors.
And they arrive from the east. Straight from the east.
Her Majesty is not amused... Fundementally.
RG
And they arrive from the east. Straight from the east.
Her Majesty is not amused... Fundementally.
RG
L'enfant Terrible
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Originally Posted by A and C
2 Opening the transmition with "speedwing 123 with you" what in the hell is this "with you" thing ?
With you also often seems to be used by septic commercial crews who are ignorant of RT procedures on rocking up.
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Anyone heard a psuedo mil pilot talking a whole bunch of crud to Leeds Bradford on a Saturday afternoon boring the @rse off everyone with "2 POB, with green socks on, and my finest £2 off ebay Ray Bans replicas, one day I'm gonna be an airline captain so get used to listening to me fellas"
You know who I mean fella.......yes you "Jordanian" Airforce man
You know who I mean fella.......yes you "Jordanian" Airforce man