So how bad is the charter bridge to the sandpit
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So how bad is the charter bridge to the sandpit
Having just returned from another trip to the flat sandy place, albeit a short trip, and having been messed around by Excel, and witnessed many others shafted by the joke of an airline.
I was wondering what the general feeling and experiences were to the joke of a contractor that the RAF have put in place to do the job of getting blokes out, and more importantly back from their Operational Tours.
Does anybody know if there is a clause in their contract to say that if they go u/s with stupid snags, and cant supply the aircraft they get punished financially for not supplying?
Or is it, just as I fear, a darned shame that troops have to spend hours upon hours in a flea pit of a tent in the "deid" with no comforts in a holding facility that would not be far of gitmo!!
For those that havent had the pleasure try 5 portaloos between 200 people for 24 hours, temperatures around 50degs in the day.
Thoughts and fellow experiences please, if it was their normal punters they would be on watchdog!!!!
I was wondering what the general feeling and experiences were to the joke of a contractor that the RAF have put in place to do the job of getting blokes out, and more importantly back from their Operational Tours.
Does anybody know if there is a clause in their contract to say that if they go u/s with stupid snags, and cant supply the aircraft they get punished financially for not supplying?
Or is it, just as I fear, a darned shame that troops have to spend hours upon hours in a flea pit of a tent in the "deid" with no comforts in a holding facility that would not be far of gitmo!!
For those that havent had the pleasure try 5 portaloos between 200 people for 24 hours, temperatures around 50degs in the day.
Thoughts and fellow experiences please, if it was their normal punters they would be on watchdog!!!!
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Nah good point they may not, but if they were on time there would be no need for the bad conditions.
Example last week, is they are out of seem to run out of crew duty on the outbound leg (they were the ones late to Bzz), so they just divert to BAH without telling anybody, to do the crew change. Thats all ok until they burst tyre again on landing. Frame is AOG, 260 blokes stuck in BAH for RAF to pick up. Who fits that bill?
Its a shambles and need sorting.
Example last week, is they are out of seem to run out of crew duty on the outbound leg (they were the ones late to Bzz), so they just divert to BAH without telling anybody, to do the crew change. Thats all ok until they burst tyre again on landing. Frame is AOG, 260 blokes stuck in BAH for RAF to pick up. Who fits that bill?
Its a shambles and need sorting.
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Having enjoyed many frequent trips to the sandpit, I can honestly say that the whole air transport situation is a joke. On average now it has taken me betwen 36-48 hours from leaving BZZ to arriving at my FOB, the same timescale applies to the way home. I feel sorry for the boys and girls trying to get home on R+R as 25% of their time off is spent at the mercy of this 
airbridge!
Cheapest contract with some dodgy aircraft, perhaps the ugliest cabin staff in existence, no air-conditioning, primitive holding areas, annoying jobsworth Movement personnel and feeding provisions all add up to a nightmare journey either way.
DTMA/FMCC/MOD need their arses kicking if this is the best way we can get our troops to and from theatre.
airbridge!Cheapest contract with some dodgy aircraft, perhaps the ugliest cabin staff in existence, no air-conditioning, primitive holding areas, annoying jobsworth Movement personnel and
feeding provisions all add up to a nightmare journey either way.DTMA/FMCC/MOD need their arses kicking if this is the best way we can get our troops to and from theatre.
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Just like everythng we do = cheapest bidder = cheapest service.
If penalty clauses were included in the contract I bet that they were about as watertight as a Tornado's cockpit .
Until we start being realistic about buying for value and not price we will get exactly what the REMFs ask for on behalf of those who actually are in harms way
Just remind me again - how many Air rank dudes and how many aircraft do we have?
If penalty clauses were included in the contract I bet that they were about as watertight as a Tornado's cockpit
. Until we start being realistic about buying for value and not price we will get exactly what the REMFs ask for on behalf of those who actually are in harms way
Just remind me again - how many Air rank dudes and how many aircraft do we have?
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Only justice last week was the pair of civ 4* equivs on the flight from the AFPRB that had the extra stop to their journey.
They of course didnt get to enjoy the facilities in the "Tenko" tent.
But they still got an insight into the great military charter contracts.
They of course didnt get to enjoy the facilities in the "Tenko" tent.
But they still got an insight into the great military charter contracts.
The thing that really grips me is the planes laid on. Outbound I've occasionally got a half decent one with legroom, but they seem to always use a tiny one with Charter seat legroom and non reclining seats for an 8hr flight. The trolley dolleys clearly couldnt give a monkeys about our welfare - too busy cackling in the galleys on all my flights. Its a total farce.
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I suppose all those squaddies that moaned so hard about 'Crab Air' over on Arrse will actually start to appreciate what they had before, even with its occasional slip-ups.
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I suppose all those squaddies that moaned so hard about 'Crab Air' over on Arrse will actually start to appreciate what they had before, even with its occasional slip-ups
You have got to be avin a larf mate
The Brize run bebacle was, and is, equally appauling. At least the RAF has the valid excuse that we only have a few transport ac, a lot are knackered and a lot poorly equipped for the theatre. The shame for the RAF is the inane attitude of plods, movers and the bosses who allow this awful service to be perpetuated by a minority of oxygen thieves.
You have got to be avin a larf mate
The Brize run bebacle was, and is, equally appauling. At least the RAF has the valid excuse that we only have a few transport ac, a lot are knackered and a lot poorly equipped for the theatre. The shame for the RAF is the inane attitude of plods, movers and the bosses who allow this awful service to be perpetuated by a minority of oxygen thieves.
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
I suppose all those squaddies that moaned so hard about 'Crab Air' over on Arrse will actually start to appreciate what they had before, even with its occasional slip-ups.
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Airbridge Farce
Ok someones got a bite, waiting in the tent of hell for an aircraft that has been delayed because of burst tires I thought wasnt bad unitil I found out that this is has happened previously. Burst tires, radio unserviceabilities, sanitary problems are not the only things and I have asked under FOI for a list of all delay criteria for excel from their company headquarters. I had 2 of my troop delayed and their RTB UK took 52 hrs from leaving their duty post. The airships say in RAF News that it is not their problem and since the contract have washed their hands of it. The farcical support for Herrick is laughable and causes even more frustration. Unfortunately the movements staffs are left between a rock and a hard place and the trade is not blessed with compassion towards those who are just trying to get home and see loved ones. I dont care how ugly the cabin staff are as long as they get me home on time, I have been living in St for 4 months already and all I want is to see Mrs SLC. One of my lads has been stitched up and had to go back for a resettlement course in his R&R, even builduing in a 4 day travel window made no difference.
Can any adult movers shed any light on the paucity of serviceable aircraft, I do not want to get into an anti movers thread as it isnt warranted and serves no purpose but you deal with this monkey airline - can you shed any light. What is happening just isnt right.
t for 4 months already and all I want is to see Mrs SLC. One of my lads has been stitched up and had to go back for a resettlement course in his R&R, even builduing in a 4 day travel window made no difference.Can any adult movers shed any light on the paucity of serviceable aircraft, I do not want to get into an anti movers thread as it isnt warranted and serves no purpose but you deal with this monkey airline - can you shed any light. What is happening just isnt right.
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They'd have alot more serviceable jets if the M-M-M-M-Moverers stopped crashing into them..... 
Ok, an old joke by now, I know, and they haven't pranged one for at least 6 months which has to be some kind of record! But the bottom line here is that we are ruled by the law of 'lowest bidder', and you gets what you pays for. XL / Air Atlanta have some rickety old crates on their books (airframes, NOT hosties - some of the hosties are very cute indeed!), but their fleet is pretty large - as a guide, they have about three times as many aircraft as Virgin, I believe. Quite why WE end up with the scrappers is beyond me.
And there's NO excuse for bursting tyres - either poor maintenance (unlikely) or crap piloting are to blame.
Ok, an old joke by now, I know, and they haven't pranged one for at least 6 months which has to be some kind of record! But the bottom line here is that we are ruled by the law of 'lowest bidder', and you gets what you pays for. XL / Air Atlanta have some rickety old crates on their books (airframes, NOT hosties - some of the hosties are very cute indeed!), but their fleet is pretty large - as a guide, they have about three times as many aircraft as Virgin, I believe. Quite why WE end up with the scrappers is beyond me.
And there's NO excuse for bursting tyres - either poor maintenance (unlikely) or crap piloting are to blame.
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I appreciate the problems being encountered, however if you feel so strongly about the poor level of service given by Excel, surely the best form of action is not to moan about movers who have absolutely no control over the chartered airline and their tech,crewing delays, you should take one of the following routes :
1. Compile all the facts and figures and write to your local MP.
2. Write to Soldier,RAF News,Navy News again with all the facts and figures, this has worked at least once in the recent past, with a Brig (?) from DTMA replying to comments and critiscims in Soldier magazine.
Discussing details on here just seems to end up in yet more anti Mover rhetoric
, I appreciate that some of the young guys/gals manning passenger desks these days lack even the basic customer service skills, but ultimately the problem lies with Excel/DTMA and should therefore be addressed to them, if you still feel aggrived with the Pax clerks attitude, speak to his OC/WO/SNCO and highlight the problem, hopefully he will learn then from his mistakes after a one to one discussion.
I believe that there is a dept at MOD/DTMA/HQSTC which along with the finance branch issues the contracts for these flights (perhaps someone in the know could publish their e-mail/office address) then you could all send complaints direct to the dept responsible.
P.S. no I am not a mover
1. Compile all the facts and figures and write to your local MP.
2. Write to Soldier,RAF News,Navy News again with all the facts and figures, this has worked at least once in the recent past, with a Brig (?) from DTMA replying to comments and critiscims in Soldier magazine.
Discussing details on here just seems to end up in yet more anti Mover rhetoric
, I appreciate that some of the young guys/gals manning passenger desks these days lack even the basic customer service skills, but ultimately the problem lies with Excel/DTMA and should therefore be addressed to them, if you still feel aggrived with the Pax clerks attitude, speak to his OC/WO/SNCO and highlight the problem, hopefully he will learn then from his mistakes after a one to one discussion. I believe that there is a dept at MOD/DTMA/HQSTC which along with the finance branch issues the contracts for these flights (perhaps someone in the know could publish their e-mail/office address) then you could all send complaints direct to the dept responsible.
P.S. no I am not a mover
Last edited by dionysius; 21st Aug 2006 at 07:52.
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All aircraft charters are the responsibility of SO2 Airlift Charter DTMA. As with all depts the funding is very tight, so as you all seem to agree you get what you pay for. So unless the mandarins open up the coffers you will always get the cheapest who can fly from A to B in the time specified and payload offered. Airlift Charter's hands are tied by cost, however, if the airline is not providing the service that is required the contract can be terminated. So fi you are flying on an MOD charter and you're not satisfied then do the following:
Every flight will have a nominated Passenger Reporting Officer (PRO normally Sqnldr or equvalent). They will have a feedback proformae as part of their brief. So instead of moaning and accepting what is happening make sure the PRO writes down all occurences from the service provided by the airline to pax handling facilites etc.
Every six months the airline and Airlift Charter hold contract review meetings I can assure you that all reports are taken seriously and acted on.
For those of you out there who are nominated as PRO's don't sit back in your comfy seat up front eyeing up the hosties, open up the folder given to you and take action.
I agree that pax facilities are appalling in some areas but when we haven't got enough transport a/c or helicopters do you think Whitehall is going spend on new terminals around the place. I think not.
Ps I am a mover...
Every flight will have a nominated Passenger Reporting Officer (PRO normally Sqnldr or equvalent). They will have a feedback proformae as part of their brief. So instead of moaning and accepting what is happening make sure the PRO writes down all occurences from the service provided by the airline to pax handling facilites etc.
Every six months the airline and Airlift Charter hold contract review meetings I can assure you that all reports are taken seriously and acted on.
For those of you out there who are nominated as PRO's don't sit back in your comfy seat up front eyeing up the hosties, open up the folder given to you and take action.
I agree that pax facilities are appalling in some areas but when we haven't got enough transport a/c or helicopters do you think Whitehall is going spend on new terminals around the place. I think not.
Ps I am a mover...
I came back from that Udeid place in Jul with Omni Air. They were two hours late in getting us to BZZ but the service was more than satisfactory. The worst part of the experience has got to be the lack of facilities and air con in the movements tent, and the lack of common sense by the movement staff when things start to go pear-shaped.
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I agree with most of the above although apart from the size of the seat in the Excel 767's (without doubt the smallest airline seat I have ever had the misforune to sit in), I have found the service quite adequate.
What is inexcusable, are the 'Terminal' facilities at Al Udaed. There must be several thousand passengers routing through there every week and yet a tent with no airconditioning, discusting sanitory facilities and is bearly large enough to hold a full load, is considered acceptable. The signs on the door say 'please close the door to keep the terminal cool'. Ha! It's 15 degrees cooler outside than it is in that flea pit.
The annoying thing is, is that the fixes aren't expensive. Air conditioning in theatre is two a penny and for the amount of personnel using the facility, plumbed in toilets are a basic necessity. It's not as if they won't get well used, we'll be there for a while yet!
What is inexcusable, are the 'Terminal' facilities at Al Udaed. There must be several thousand passengers routing through there every week and yet a tent with no airconditioning, discusting sanitory facilities and is bearly large enough to hold a full load, is considered acceptable. The signs on the door say 'please close the door to keep the terminal cool'. Ha! It's 15 degrees cooler outside than it is in that flea pit.
The annoying thing is, is that the fixes aren't expensive. Air conditioning in theatre is two a penny and for the amount of personnel using the facility, plumbed in toilets are a basic necessity. It's not as if they won't get well used, we'll be there for a while yet!
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Certainly dont want this to go down the anti-mover thread, in the past 3 years I have worked very closely with the branch on a number of occaisons.
The purpose was to canvas feelings on the performance of the airline, and yes although you get what you pay for, my question is do you get money back when you dont get what you pay for?
The burst tyre thing has happend at least twice recently, together with flat batteries, poor comms and a number of other mechanical failings.
I agree re the PRO, but when it comes push to shove and they are filling 2 frames worth of pax onto 1 frame then all of a sudden the name of the PRO falls by the sidelines.
The use of this forum to air the issues is I have to say a cheap shot on my behalf, the airships monitor this and will probably take more notice than a letter to my MP, who quite frankly will just get fobbed of by MOD.
I hope that Excel soon lose this contract and if nothing else lets get those Omni Air guys onto sustainment as well as r&r.
The purpose was to canvas feelings on the performance of the airline, and yes although you get what you pay for, my question is do you get money back when you dont get what you pay for?
The burst tyre thing has happend at least twice recently, together with flat batteries, poor comms and a number of other mechanical failings.
I agree re the PRO, but when it comes push to shove and they are filling 2 frames worth of pax onto 1 frame then all of a sudden the name of the PRO falls by the sidelines.
The use of this forum to air the issues is I have to say a cheap shot on my behalf, the airships monitor this and will probably take more notice than a letter to my MP, who quite frankly will just get fobbed of by MOD.
I hope that Excel soon lose this contract and if nothing else lets get those Omni Air guys onto sustainment as well as r&r.
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Most points addressed already. Shame to see this has yet again denegrated into a bit of a 'Mover-Bashing' (is this going to be an Olympic sport in 2012? If not, take up another hobby, it just makes you look silly.)
The Charter Airline hold a couple of contracts with the MOD (the other being the SA Airbridge) and to be fair are not half as unreliable as the 'Brize Norton Static Display Team' - sorry, Twenty-One Six Squadron.
I have an idea on how to improve the facilities in the 'Deid...we should rob Peter to pay Paul. Scrap the ageing fleet of Tristars and VC10's in total. Make the failed fighter jocks - sorry, Tristar and VC10 pilots - redundant with no payoff. Force the Engineers, Loadmasters and Stewards to remuster to areas of the RAF where they could be better utilised - or better still stick them on the JPAC Helpdesks.
If these basic measures are met then the money saved could be spent on plumbed in toilets, air conditioning, more pax related trade training for Movers, spectacles for some of those Movers to assist them when driving near aircraft.
An added bonus of this plan is that it would get rid of a considerable number of past-their-shelf life bleaters.
We might also get enough money to spend on the Charter Contract and get a better airline to work the routes. I think a few million quid will become available if we just remove the burden of Ground Engineers wages from the RAF budget.
Thoughts?
CC
ps All above comments are tongue in cheek and the author holds no responsibility if anyone gets a little uppity about the content of this post.
The Charter Airline hold a couple of contracts with the MOD (the other being the SA Airbridge) and to be fair are not half as unreliable as the 'Brize Norton Static Display Team' - sorry, Twenty-One Six Squadron.
I have an idea on how to improve the facilities in the 'Deid...we should rob Peter to pay Paul. Scrap the ageing fleet of Tristars and VC10's in total. Make the failed fighter jocks - sorry, Tristar and VC10 pilots - redundant with no payoff. Force the Engineers, Loadmasters and Stewards to remuster to areas of the RAF where they could be better utilised - or better still stick them on the JPAC Helpdesks.
If these basic measures are met then the money saved could be spent on plumbed in toilets, air conditioning, more pax related trade training for Movers, spectacles for some of those Movers to assist them when driving near aircraft.
An added bonus of this plan is that it would get rid of a considerable number of past-their-shelf life bleaters.
We might also get enough money to spend on the Charter Contract and get a better airline to work the routes. I think a few million quid will become available if we just remove the burden of Ground Engineers wages from the RAF budget.
Thoughts?
CC
ps All above comments are tongue in cheek and the author holds no responsibility if anyone gets a little uppity about the content of this post.
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Originally Posted by Nat O'Thee
I hope that Excel soon lose this contract and if nothing else lets get those Omni Air guys onto sustainment as well as r&r.
CC
Com-particularly stupid-Charlie, Excuse are quoted as providing a mere 30" seat pitch in Economy. If I recall correctly, it is 34" in the truckie VC10C1K and 38" in the gucci VC10K4. Not that the K4 normally carries Untermensch such as you....
There is absolutely no excuse for decent sanitary or comfortable pre-boarding areas. That is down to laziness, a fundamental lack of duty of care and sod-all interest.
There is absolutely no excuse for decent sanitary or comfortable pre-boarding areas. That is down to laziness, a fundamental lack of duty of care and sod-all interest.
