So how bad is the charter bridge to the sandpit
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Dear Beagle,
please feel free to quote any reference I made to seat pitches on aircraft.
However, I do agree wholeheartedly with your points about sanitation and comfortable waiting areas. Perhaps you would care to address those ones to someone who controls those facilities (possibly 5001 Sqn? Not sure if the 'Deid uses their Rhubbs or not) as it is certainly not controlled by Movements. Maybe Prom?
I await your apology (along with Laarbruch72 from another thread) for taking my name and quoting it with reference to somebody elses comments.
Kind Regards
CC
please feel free to quote any reference I made to seat pitches on aircraft.
However, I do agree wholeheartedly with your points about sanitation and comfortable waiting areas. Perhaps you would care to address those ones to someone who controls those facilities (possibly 5001 Sqn? Not sure if the 'Deid uses their Rhubbs or not) as it is certainly not controlled by Movements. Maybe Prom?
I await your apology (along with Laarbruch72 from another thread) for taking my name and quoting it with reference to somebody elses comments.
Kind Regards
CC
Quote verbatim: "I have an idea on how to improve the facilities in the 'Deid...we should rob Peter to pay Paul. Scrap the ageing fleet of Tristars and VC10's in total"
Hence no chance whatever of half-decent seat pitch for you and your cronies, should your half-baked 'idea' ever see fruition....
Hence no chance whatever of half-decent seat pitch for you and your cronies, should your half-baked 'idea' ever see fruition....
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I never moaned about the seat pitch on the aircraft. Therefore, that simple fact implies that personally I couldn't care less. It is a seat on a plane either taking me to a ****hole (thereby I have bigger things to be pissed off about than a bit of legroom) or returning me from a ****hole (thereby I have bigger things to look forward to than a bit of legroom)
My disclaimer at the bottom of the post about it being tongue in cheek must also have slipped your attention, I apologise for that. It was my way of turning the tables on the mandatory 'Mover Bashing' and pointing out how much use Brize Nortons Tristar and VC10 fleet are to the real problem of troop movement (a basic requirement of an Air TRANSPORT fleet).
Please feel free to correct my possible lack of knowledge by pointing out what i'm missing if these aircraft and those who fly them can provide a better service than the current civilian carriers.
CC
My disclaimer at the bottom of the post about it being tongue in cheek must also have slipped your attention, I apologise for that. It was my way of turning the tables on the mandatory 'Mover Bashing' and pointing out how much use Brize Nortons Tristar and VC10 fleet are to the real problem of troop movement (a basic requirement of an Air TRANSPORT fleet).
Please feel free to correct my possible lack of knowledge by pointing out what i'm missing if these aircraft and those who fly them can provide a better service than the current civilian carriers.
CC
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If Excel girls are so ugly , stop shagging them behind your wives backs.. As for the performance, fair comment, no excuse, but still better than a vc10, a stroppy steward called hitler and a haverbag of sh1te from some crab cookhouse.
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Comp Charlie has a point. Charter costs are significantly cheaper than the 'no-loss cost' of any of our AT aircraft when you compare the cost of running an 'AT' Sqn against hours flown. Where twentyone-six finds their niche is in their abiliy to get into those places charters can't (or aren't allowed to) reach, namely those requiring DAS. For a relatively Admin move, Excel actually provides MOD plc with a fairly reliable and cost-effective service.
Don't start on the legroom argument; there are several definitions of where / what you measure, but broadly speaking, the charter airlines closely match our AT fleet (the K4 doesn't count as it is not a feasible way of moving troops). BEagle, I don't believe you are able to provide relevent comment on anywhere hot and sandy since you left a few years ago. Please persist from acusing those who are working very hard of being lazy.
Oh,and some of the Excel girls ARE lovely. Believe me!
Don't start on the legroom argument; there are several definitions of where / what you measure, but broadly speaking, the charter airlines closely match our AT fleet (the K4 doesn't count as it is not a feasible way of moving troops). BEagle, I don't believe you are able to provide relevent comment on anywhere hot and sandy since you left a few years ago. Please persist from acusing those who are working very hard of being lazy.
Oh,and some of the Excel girls ARE lovely. Believe me!
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Speaking as someone who has 'dipped' into the delights of Excel/AA Cabin-Crew I can actually vouch that some of them aren't half bad. 
You see, I don't 'do' munters...
If you have been unfortunate to be 'served' by some of the, shall we say, 'less pleasing on the eye' members of the company, then may I suggest the better looking ones were working in areas of the aircraft where they can hang around the younger, fitter, more attractive members of HM Forces while the old crones were left with the areas of the aircraft habited by the older, uglier more unsavoury passengers (ie you - that's a generic you, if the cap fits, feel free to wear it)
CC
You see, I don't 'do' munters...
If you have been unfortunate to be 'served' by some of the, shall we say, 'less pleasing on the eye' members of the company, then may I suggest the better looking ones were working in areas of the aircraft where they can hang around the younger, fitter, more attractive members of HM Forces while the old crones were left with the areas of the aircraft habited by the older, uglier more unsavoury passengers (ie you - that's a generic you, if the cap fits, feel free to wear it)
CC
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Airbridge Farce
The lack of sanitation and poor accommodation has been correctly identified as 'Laziness' and a clearly illustrates a 'lack of duty of care'. I have taken steps to record pictorially the areas of concern and am preparing a letter to Sec Def and my MP who is the Current leader of the Opposition. It is not right that pure laziness and a lack of initiative and intuiton on the part of those responsible for the airhead should be suffered by so many and so often. Abbrogation of responsibility when faced with adversity is (to my mind) effectively cowardice and shows a lack of professional integrity.
I do not agree with mover bashing, but if the airhead is their AOR together with the J4 guys who can provide suitable aircons and contracts for proper sanitation, then they are at fault. Its not as though Telic has just started is it? The guy that puts his name to the opening of a toilet block and proper accommodation will rightly win the praise of his peers and superiors.
I do not agree with mover bashing, but if the airhead is their AOR together with the J4 guys who can provide suitable aircons and contracts for proper sanitation, then they are at fault. Its not as though Telic has just started is it? The guy that puts his name to the opening of a toilet block and proper accommodation will rightly win the praise of his peers and superiors.
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Hear hear, well said that man...At least someone is getting off their arse to do something about it rather than just whinging like the vast majority of others.
It is a sad indictment, that although not reponsible for the purse strings and the LPO of things like Air Con units or toilets, my fellow Movers seem content to plod along in unsavoury working conditions.
Unless of course it is all another Mover conspiracy and we are deliberately providing ****e facilities (and working in them ourselves) for the sole purpose of screwing everyone over.
Do you not think that although you may have to spend 24 hours or so in this squalor while transitting as pax, the lads and girls in the 'Deid have to spend 4 months working in them? I feel sure that avenues of improvement must have been researched but the bean counters have turned them down for some reason...probably because the money is better spent on scatter cushions for the Aircrew rest facility...
CC
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Must be hard work for the muppets at Al Udeid - aircon accommodation, pool, BX and bar.
I think they could perhaps use their 4 months to improve the conditions for the young squaddies returning home after a tour of duty in the heat and dust of Basrah driving soft-skinned vehicles avoiding IEDs.
There is no excuse for the lack of facilities at this APOD - and yes I have complained and asked questions of the right people to be told it's only a temporary facility to support the charter, When we have enough AT available it will be closed.
Should be around 2010 then.
I think they could perhaps use their 4 months to improve the conditions for the young squaddies returning home after a tour of duty in the heat and dust of Basrah driving soft-skinned vehicles avoiding IEDs.
There is no excuse for the lack of facilities at this APOD - and yes I have complained and asked questions of the right people to be told it's only a temporary facility to support the charter, When we have enough AT available it will be closed.
Should be around 2010 then.
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I think they could perhaps use their 4 months to improve the conditions for the young squaddies
asked questions of the right people to be told it's only a temporary facility to support the charter, When we have enough AT available it will be closed.
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So let me get this right...
It is the responsibility of the Movers with no budget to improve the facilities of transit pax, leaving the bean counters and suppliers to do...what exactly?
Since when has basic infrastructure been the responsibility of the guys who work in it?
I doubt the purchase of a lightbulb is allowed without paperwork in quadriplicate being submitted 12 months prior to it burning out, having it staffed to 3 star level and the fitting of it being subcontracted out to a company specialising in patio driveway laying as the MD plays golf with the SO1.
So what chance do Movs Staff have of finding funding for plumbed in toilets and air-con? Surely the money would be better spent on providing a few replacement vehicles for those soft-skinned Landrovers you mention?
After all, having to wait your turn to take a crap and sweating a bit is preferable to having your arse shot out from under you surely?
A glib comment to make maybe, but the truth is I feel sure the Detachment Commander in Al Udeid operates a system of building inspections, and therefore if there are improvements to be made then he is the guy to force the issue and make things so, not the SAC manning the pax desk being sworn at by Army officers day after day...what incentive does he have for implementing the improvements, and more to the point, how much joy do you think he would get?
CC
It is the responsibility of the Movers with no budget to improve the facilities of transit pax, leaving the bean counters and suppliers to do...what exactly?
Since when has basic infrastructure been the responsibility of the guys who work in it?
I doubt the purchase of a lightbulb is allowed without paperwork in quadriplicate being submitted 12 months prior to it burning out, having it staffed to 3 star level and the fitting of it being subcontracted out to a company specialising in patio driveway laying as the MD plays golf with the SO1.
So what chance do Movs Staff have of finding funding for plumbed in toilets and air-con? Surely the money would be better spent on providing a few replacement vehicles for those soft-skinned Landrovers you mention?
After all, having to wait your turn to take a crap and sweating a bit is preferable to having your arse shot out from under you surely?
A glib comment to make maybe, but the truth is I feel sure the Detachment Commander in Al Udeid operates a system of building inspections, and therefore if there are improvements to be made then he is the guy to force the issue and make things so, not the SAC manning the pax desk being sworn at by Army officers day after day...what incentive does he have for implementing the improvements, and more to the point, how much joy do you think he would get?
CC
FX Guru
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I just want to say as a civvy (but from a family with a military background) that I'm absolutely appalled by this thread.
EG - An unairconned tent for departures? What utter bollocks.
Hats off to you all out there. Ecah of you should print this thread off and send it to your MP. Maybe someone in Whitehall will do something about it (when they get back from their million week summer break that is).
Best wishes.
EG - An unairconned tent for departures? What utter bollocks.
Hats off to you all out there. Ecah of you should print this thread off and send it to your MP. Maybe someone in Whitehall will do something about it (when they get back from their million week summer break that is).
Best wishes.
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For those that are qutie happy to slag off the sqn I work on, namely TWO SIXTEEN, let me put forward my two-pennith. the guys on all 4 shifts work their b*****x off to get the, yes ageing, aircraft out to you, we are in the same boat as the rest of the Air Force with the insane lack of spares for aircraft and the constant rolling robs that have to be carried out to get the jets serviceable so you can come home and bleat and whinge.
We currently have 2 airframes away on maintenance with a third due to go towards the end of this month, and we also support a detachment in the sunny, sandy climes and on top of that we also have to supply aircraft for moves to the rest of the world along daily AAR taskings.
We only have 2 dedicated passenger aircraft that are constantly flying back and forth to upload troops to come home from the furthest sandy shores and spend the minimal amount of time on the ground at Brize to achieve this.
We can't foresee any unserviceabilities that may arise from these constant sorties and with the rest of the services we to have to put up with a big reduction of personnel that are not going to be replaced.
So much so my shift for the Avionics trade has left them with 3 people on this shift. this after putting a leave ban because we've reached the maximum of 2, yes 2, people that are allowed on leave at any one time. the next shift is even worse as ther will be only 2 people on for the whole of the shift.
End of my two-pennith
PS yes i've had to endure the wonderous 'terminal' at the deed and the exquisite holding tent with less aircon than my a**e produces (after this some will say my mouth too but hey-ho)
We currently have 2 airframes away on maintenance with a third due to go towards the end of this month, and we also support a detachment in the sunny, sandy climes and on top of that we also have to supply aircraft for moves to the rest of the world along daily AAR taskings.
We only have 2 dedicated passenger aircraft that are constantly flying back and forth to upload troops to come home from the furthest sandy shores and spend the minimal amount of time on the ground at Brize to achieve this.
We can't foresee any unserviceabilities that may arise from these constant sorties and with the rest of the services we to have to put up with a big reduction of personnel that are not going to be replaced.
So much so my shift for the Avionics trade has left them with 3 people on this shift. this after putting a leave ban because we've reached the maximum of 2, yes 2, people that are allowed on leave at any one time. the next shift is even worse as ther will be only 2 people on for the whole of the shift.
End of my two-pennith
PS yes i've had to endure the wonderous 'terminal' at the deed and the exquisite holding tent with less aircon than my a**e produces (after this some will say my mouth too but hey-ho)
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Well said Eckster. Hence MOD Charters Q.E.D...
Like it or lump it it ain't going to change. With FSTA no where in sight it looks like we will have to put up with cheap and not so cheerfull airlines for a very long time to come.
Like it or lump it it ain't going to change. With FSTA no where in sight it looks like we will have to put up with cheap and not so cheerfull airlines for a very long time to come.
Eckster
Nobody is, or should be, slagging off the people on the AT Sqns. Maybe someone in power will do what is needed and buy some new jets, as this situation is only going to get worse with time.
p.s. Don't slag off the Deid too much, there are plenty of HM Forces deployed OOA in places without swimming pools and the rest!
Nobody is, or should be, slagging off the people on the AT Sqns. Maybe someone in power will do what is needed and buy some new jets, as this situation is only going to get worse with time.
p.s. Don't slag off the Deid too much, there are plenty of HM Forces deployed OOA in places without swimming pools and the rest!
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I have no doubt the folks are working their arses off - unfortunately due to FCOrequirements it is harder as we are obliged to keep folk in the malvinas due to bayonet strength!