Joint Helicopter Command........
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Originally Posted by GasFitter
Because if the MOD insisted that all aircrew in the Army had to be commissioned, the Army couldn't produce the quality of people to fill all of the cockpits .... or of course you'd have to get a bigger bunch of chinless wonders whose father's own some shire county, train them for a significant period, so that they could go back to their preferred regiments after one productive tour having had "jolly good fun flying "a toy" for a few years! Now that's a waste of money, training, time and effort - but hey, it's the only way that the AAC will get any understanding or representation in the higher places of the Army as they are not taken seriously. Infantry and tanks, that's what the Army do - AAC are the glorified General's taxi service! Leave the professional aircrew within the RAF to do the proper stuff whilst the green jobs enjoy themselves under the direction of the ignorant 'Teeth Arm' who continue to blah on about the uselessness of the 'Air Environment' because they can't see it on the battlefield, whilst simultaneously demonstrating they don't understand it at all!
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[email protected]:
Goes to prove just how higorant you are matey..... 'second senior service' my @rse. Leave the flying to the RAF at least they know what they are doing and what flying is all about without pongo interference. Stick to digging holes in the ground you're good at that..
Goes to prove just how higorant you are matey..... 'second senior service' my @rse. Leave the flying to the RAF at least they know what they are doing and what flying is all about without pongo interference. Stick to digging holes in the ground you're good at that..
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[email protected]
There was a serious reason for this thread - and you're not it!
Go and play somewhere else instead of getting pathetically and inaccurately personal.
There was a serious reason for this thread - and you're not it!
Go and play somewhere else instead of getting pathetically and inaccurately personal.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Tosser.
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Originally Posted by A and C
A lot of the NCO aircrew in the RAF that I have met would be well up to doing the flying job, but for you it seems to be a question of " if they don't fit into the officers mess then they cant fly the aircraft".
History shows that the greatest achivments of the RAF would not have happend without NCO pilots.
History shows that the greatest achivments of the RAF would not have happend without NCO pilots.
You've completely missed my point - the argument was turned on its head with respect to the AAC. Soldiering and tanks first AAC in the 'also-ran' list. How many AAC (or its predecessors) CGSs have their been? Not just guys who have done it outside of their preferred regiments?
I fully concur with your last point, though!
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The reason the RAF have commisioned dudes as drivers is because the technology we employ demands the sort of understanding only a highly educated individual can master
Which is the main reason they are paid so highly
But in the AAC the pre requiste to control a small chopper is that a couple of weeks prior to selection you were seen to be bloody good at either shouting loudly or simply punching someone to establish your point of veiw...............al la warthog we rest our case oh articulate one
Still if the AAC pay peanuts.........................
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Which is the main reason they are paid so highly But in the AAC the pre requiste to control a small chopper is that a couple of weeks prior to selection you were seen to be bloody good at either shouting loudly or simply punching someone to establish your point of veiw...............al la warthog we rest our case oh articulate one
Still if the AAC pay peanuts.........................
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Originally Posted by Always_broken_in_wilts
The reason the RAF have commisioned dudes as drivers is because the technology we employ demands the sort of understanding only a highly educated individual can master......
I'm really getting a good vibe off the service rotorcraft community - can't wait to join you lot in a few years time if I get my wings. Sounds as if you really have a great respect for each other.
Cynical, moi?
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Originally Posted by Taffer
....so, that's why SNCO's are flying the AH then?
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Originally Posted by GasFitter
You've just made the point that the AACs NCOs are as good, if not better, than their commissioned counterparts! They probably have accents and went to Comprehensive schools, though!
Maybe my lack of Service bias is due to naivety, which a few years in the wardroom should correct.
I have an accent, went to a comp. school, and I also possess a chin - does that stop me becoming an officer?
Despite not going the pongo route, I have the utmost respect for the AAC NCOs - however, I'm sure many of the barcoded crabs will give a reason as to why they should be the only ones allowed to fly Wasteland's and Wastospatiale's finest.
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Normal nonsence being posted on here then. Any chance of getting back to the original thread about perceived problems with how JHC functions rather than trading the same tired RAF vs AAC rubbish?
No? Didn't think so.
No? Didn't think so.
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To return to the thread.............
The reason behind this thread is the perceived creaping cancer of 'Army-ism', together with a hint of RN and what appears to be, none of the familiar RAF experience-based reasoning and common sense, which is contained within some of the policies forced upon the RAF SH fleet by JHC.
eg: Night Flying Currencies.
After countless years of flying a minimum of 1hr per 90 days night requirement which was found very minimal but satisfactory, we now find ourselves chasing a rolling 3 month currency of 4.5hrs, which has to include 3 RNF approaches. Now that may not sound much but in the last 9 weeks we have just completed 6 weeks of night flying in two 3-week night flying periods. Flogging virtually the same routes, fields and confined areas carrying the same netted USLs in order for us to maintain this OTT and in our view, unreasonable requirement. In 37yrs of flying I have never ever had to chase so many bloody ticks. This particular 'chase' not only p1ssed off the natives, it knackered the aircrew, the groundcrew and possibly more importantly, the aircraft! Despite querying the new currency requirement with JHC we were told that it will remain asis!! Why in these times of financial contraint, have these costly 'requirements' remained? This smacks of forced and unreasonable embuggerance for the sake of it. It has a heavy hint of Army inflexibillity, a small hint of RN and definitely no RAF common sense in it!
Which takes me back to the thread......
'has the RAF been stitched by JHC?' -
I believe that by virtue of its' 'Junior' status in the supposedly 'TRI-Service' emporium at JHC the voice of RAF reason no longer has the authority or effect it had in days of yore. And it is beginning to show.
Why is there no flexibillity based upon the Sqn role or Combat Status (LCR/CR) or maybe an experience 'allowance' or some other form of differentiation? Or is that too complicated? If you are LCR or if you are AH then you need more night flying. Incidentally there is nothing wrong with SNCO pilots per se but don't start that dirge again! However, with no experience 'allowance' we are all 'tarred with the same brush' and it's going to cost plenty! On normal SH Sqns which have been running very nicely and competently for 40+yrs - why change the currency requirement? I can only think it is the beligerance, intransigence and inflexibility of the of the louder voices in JHC where, if there happens to be a louder RAF voice it is out voted by the 'senior service' Joker being played!
This perception is damaging the RAF 'coalface' and discrediting JHC in RAF eyes. We don't appear to have a strong enough representation looking after our interests in JHC. Very wisely the RN have kept their 'arbiter' such that 'if it doesn't suit the RN interest' then they don't do it!! The Army has Gavan (?) which does the same thing. The RAF seemingly has buggerall! This has got to change!!
I look around at my fellow Sqn mates and I see dissatisfaction, a sense of injustice, confusion, resignation and a whole heap of cynicism. It's almost as if one hasn't got a vote anymore which is bad joo joo........ .
eg: Night Flying Currencies.
After countless years of flying a minimum of 1hr per 90 days night requirement which was found very minimal but satisfactory, we now find ourselves chasing a rolling 3 month currency of 4.5hrs, which has to include 3 RNF approaches. Now that may not sound much but in the last 9 weeks we have just completed 6 weeks of night flying in two 3-week night flying periods. Flogging virtually the same routes, fields and confined areas carrying the same netted USLs in order for us to maintain this OTT and in our view, unreasonable requirement. In 37yrs of flying I have never ever had to chase so many bloody ticks. This particular 'chase' not only p1ssed off the natives, it knackered the aircrew, the groundcrew and possibly more importantly, the aircraft! Despite querying the new currency requirement with JHC we were told that it will remain asis!! Why in these times of financial contraint, have these costly 'requirements' remained? This smacks of forced and unreasonable embuggerance for the sake of it. It has a heavy hint of Army inflexibillity, a small hint of RN and definitely no RAF common sense in it!
Which takes me back to the thread......
'has the RAF been stitched by JHC?' -
I believe that by virtue of its' 'Junior' status in the supposedly 'TRI-Service' emporium at JHC the voice of RAF reason no longer has the authority or effect it had in days of yore. And it is beginning to show.
Why is there no flexibillity based upon the Sqn role or Combat Status (LCR/CR) or maybe an experience 'allowance' or some other form of differentiation? Or is that too complicated? If you are LCR or if you are AH then you need more night flying. Incidentally there is nothing wrong with SNCO pilots per se but don't start that dirge again! However, with no experience 'allowance' we are all 'tarred with the same brush' and it's going to cost plenty! On normal SH Sqns which have been running very nicely and competently for 40+yrs - why change the currency requirement? I can only think it is the beligerance, intransigence and inflexibility of the of the louder voices in JHC where, if there happens to be a louder RAF voice it is out voted by the 'senior service' Joker being played!
This perception is damaging the RAF 'coalface' and discrediting JHC in RAF eyes. We don't appear to have a strong enough representation looking after our interests in JHC. Very wisely the RN have kept their 'arbiter' such that 'if it doesn't suit the RN interest' then they don't do it!! The Army has Gavan (?) which does the same thing. The RAF seemingly has buggerall! This has got to change!!
I look around at my fellow Sqn mates and I see dissatisfaction, a sense of injustice, confusion, resignation and a whole heap of cynicism. It's almost as if one hasn't got a vote anymore which is bad joo joo........
.
Last edited by Dundiggin'; 25th Aug 2006 at 15:59.
Originally Posted by ORAC
So why do the US Army make their WO pilots commissioned officers then......
Originally Posted by GasFitter
Because they've had years of practice!
Flying Currencies. After countless years of a minimum of 1hr per 90 days night flying requirement which was found very minimal but satisfactory,we now find ourselves chasing a rolling 3 month currency of 4.5hrs, which has to include 3 RNF approaches. Now that may not sound much but in the last nine weeks we have just completed 6 weeks in two three-week periods of night flying. Flogging virtually the same routes, fields and confined areas carrying the same netted USLs in order for us to maintain these OTT and to us unreasonable requirements. In 37yrs of flying I have never ever had to chase so many bloody ticks. This particular 'chase' not only p1ssed off the natives, it knackered the aircrew, the groundcrew and possibly more importantly, the aircraft! Despite querying this new currency requirement with JHC we have been told that they will remain asis!! Why, in these times of financial contraint have these costly 'requirements' remained? This smacks of forced and unreasonable embuggerance for the sake of it. It has a heavy hint of Army inflexibillity, a small hint of RN and apparently no RAF reason in it!
The Navy have had these requirements for quite a while and the Army only did 1 hr in 8 wks prior to JHC so why you blame the Army for the changes is anyones guess.
The AAC also had a rule for minimal Night flying during the Summer to avoid annoying the locals.
Sorry to tell you but aviation has moved on in the last 37 yrs.