Joint Helicopter Command........
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JHC
Before we go into a full blown peeing contest, I'd just like to say that I have been involved with JHC since it's inception. Some aspects work, some don't and sniping at our brothers dressed in green isn't going to change much.
I've worked with some shambolic people in my own service(RAF) and some first class individuals in the Army, and vice versa. Pigeon holing people on the colour of their beret only holds us back.
The AAC are doing a fantastic job in the Stan, as indeed is the SH Force and both deserve mutual respect for excelling at different jobs requiring different attributes. As a SH Mate, the British Army are our customer, and we forget that at our peril....ask 12 Sqn RAAF who kindly handed their SH to the Army after playing by the truckie fleet rules.
As for the RN, God I've tried to understand them, but they seem to exist to perpetuate their own PR and to maintain traditions developed when the earth was believed flat.
I've worked with some shambolic people in my own service(RAF) and some first class individuals in the Army, and vice versa. Pigeon holing people on the colour of their beret only holds us back.
The AAC are doing a fantastic job in the Stan, as indeed is the SH Force and both deserve mutual respect for excelling at different jobs requiring different attributes. As a SH Mate, the British Army are our customer, and we forget that at our peril....ask 12 Sqn RAAF who kindly handed their SH to the Army after playing by the truckie fleet rules.
As for the RN, God I've tried to understand them, but they seem to exist to perpetuate their own PR and to maintain traditions developed when the earth was believed flat.
Hellbound
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TR
you are so right - just how many people does it take to look after a few Lynx? Roughly the same as it does to look after the Wokkas and AH combined. Good job we have lots of spare space out there for them all...
you are so right - just how many people does it take to look after a few Lynx? Roughly the same as it does to look after the Wokkas and AH combined. Good job we have lots of spare space out there for them all...
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Originally Posted by Op Tastic
What an opener for debate... and THS and SB grace us with insight and comment normally reserved for the Oracle.
Current:
AH proves itself as a true Army platform and rightly sits on the gree side of the fence.
Future:
RAF SH fleet combined with AAC - working together - no noses put out of joint and Crabs able to get Blueys delivered on time and right location.
AT Fleet sub-contracted out to 'who-ever' but not run by the current bunch.
Typhoon Air Defence scrapped - who exactly is the enemy we are dog-fightin' against - put the money into more SH. Remaining a/c fit niceley into the new RN Marine Air Wing. Littoral ops and rum rations.
As we all know,and to quote the Oracle, "There will be a great victory!"
I'm off for breakfast...
Current:
AH proves itself as a true Army platform and rightly sits on the gree side of the fence.
Future:
RAF SH fleet combined with AAC - working together - no noses put out of joint and Crabs able to get Blueys delivered on time and right location.
AT Fleet sub-contracted out to 'who-ever' but not run by the current bunch.
Typhoon Air Defence scrapped - who exactly is the enemy we are dog-fightin' against - put the money into more SH. Remaining a/c fit niceley into the new RN Marine Air Wing. Littoral ops and rum rations.
As we all know,and to quote the Oracle, "There will be a great victory!"
I'm off for breakfast...
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The JHC has been around for what, 7, 8 years? And for the first time in all those years, the Commander is something other than RAF and all of a sudden the Crabs feel threatened.
Did you expect the RAF to command it forever? The FAA don't drip about it all day with truculant comments and yet haven't had a sniff at the command.
Did you expect the RAF to command it forever? The FAA don't drip about it all day with truculant comments and yet haven't had a sniff at the command.
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Originally Posted by Arthur's Wizard
The JHC has been around for what, 7, 8 years? And for the first time in all those years, the Commander is something other than RAF and all of a sudden the Crabs feel theatened.
with all the barmy Army nonsense that now permeates every aspect of our working lives with the possible exception of the colour of the head dress we wear although I suspect that's not far off.For example, there are Landrovers running round Kandahar bearing (RAF) Sqn insignia of a well known mythical horsey type creature, being driven by and permanently allocated to Army folk who "forgot" to bring any MT to the party, but because we're all "joint" we have to give up our assets to bail out the pongoes.
Now let me ask you this....Do you think this arrangement would be so popular if the tide were going out instead of coming in?
And they have the audacity to say WE don't know how to deploy.
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errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ok!
So your gripe about the Army dominating the JHC (They do have more helicopters than the other 2 services put together) stems from you having to give up a Land Rover due to poor Pongo admin?
Ask the Green Types who the second class citizen's in JHF (NI) are; I can assure you that it isn't our light blue bretheren.
So your gripe about the Army dominating the JHC (They do have more helicopters than the other 2 services put together) stems from you having to give up a Land Rover due to poor Pongo admin?
Ask the Green Types who the second class citizen's in JHF (NI) are; I can assure you that it isn't our light blue bretheren.
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Not 100% sure it is JHC's attitude to light blue that is the problem, after all the RAF have been fairly represented in the 2-Star department since its inception. Is it rather that the mainstream RAF (STC) has kind of forgotten about the SH world? I can't actually find much written down about where rotary fits into AirPower doctrine at all, although I do believe there may be a project in the offing to study it and understand it.
Personally (and I am RAF) I think all the rotary should be under one banner, RAF or AAC, whichever is best suited (not intending to start a fight on that one), but it just seems barking to have 2 (3 if you count CHF) groups of people working so closely together under different rules/regs/terms of service etc. JHC is a bit of a compromise in that respect providing essential oversight of the different processes.
Personally (and I am RAF) I think all the rotary should be under one banner, RAF or AAC, whichever is best suited (not intending to start a fight on that one), but it just seems barking to have 2 (3 if you count CHF) groups of people working so closely together under different rules/regs/terms of service etc. JHC is a bit of a compromise in that respect providing essential oversight of the different processes.
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Originally Posted by Arthur's Wizard
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ok!
So your gripe about the Army dominating the JHC (They do have more helicopters than the other 2 services put together) stems from you having to give up a Land Rover due to poor Pongo admin?
So your gripe about the Army dominating the JHC (They do have more helicopters than the other 2 services put together) stems from you having to give up a Land Rover due to poor Pongo admin?
Maybe the RAF should start operating tanks (not those piddly little things the Rocks had). Proper big Chally 2s. Then see who whinges.
Trouble is the Army in general firmly believe their own Be The Best campaign and think they can do absolutely everything and anything far, far better than absolutely anybody else, ever, in the known Universe.
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TR,
It's not just JHC that has **** all "purple" in it.
I am sure you already have but try a visit to AIR STATION Basrah and see just how the Green Machine runs that place. Every "chinless lab owning tea from Fortnum and Mason daddy owns shropshire stupid stick carrying daft hat wearing" wonder drives the 2-300 yards to work in a brand new disco 3 but try getting fours jinglie buses for the Herc det
Happily the det is off to the "Deid" leaving behind all those quaint little customs like RSM's, this bars for permanent staff, CBA everywhere unless of course you are out jockstrapping, tent inspections by the Camp Com blah blah.........
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
It's not just JHC that has **** all "purple" in it.
I am sure you already have but try a visit to AIR STATION Basrah and see just how the Green Machine runs that place. Every "chinless lab owning tea from Fortnum and Mason daddy owns shropshire stupid stick carrying daft hat wearing" wonder drives the 2-300 yards to work in a brand new disco 3 but try getting fours jinglie buses for the Herc det
Happily the det is off to the "Deid" leaving behind all those quaint little customs like RSM's, this bars for permanent staff, CBA everywhere unless of course you are out jockstrapping, tent inspections by the Camp Com blah blah.........
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Sod whether or not the 'RAF' has been stitched. The question has to be if the RAF guys in JHC are better supported by their Brown-job Bosses than when the previous Light Blue hierarchy
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Originally Posted by Talking Radalt
Maybe the RAF should start operating tanks (not those piddly little things the Rocks had). Proper big Chally 2s. Then see who whinges.
.
.
Mmmmm. Great argument
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Originally Posted by Arthur's Wizard
A very interesting reply. So am I to understand from this that your argument is based on the fact that the Pongos (and presumably the FAA) should not even own aircraft let alone head up a Joint Command?
Army (very loud) "We're great! You're shi!t!"
RAF <sigh> "yes, ok, you win"
On the subject of JHC and cheapness, value for money,etc..why do we in the RAF still have commisioned officers flying SH when everyday I see SNCO AAC pilots doing the same job ? Okay, delivering blueys and cabbying the Brig about may be slightly diffrent to carrying a stick of paras but the 'driving' jobs just the same.
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Originally Posted by Stitchbitch
On the subject of JHC and cheapness, value for money,etc..why do we in the RAF still have commisioned officers flying SH when everyday I see SNCO AAC pilots doing the same job ? Okay, delivering blueys and cabbying the Brig about may be slightly diffrent to carrying a stick of paras but the 'driving' jobs just the same.
Good point - And the Fleet Air Arm for that Matter.
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Originally Posted by Stitchbitch
On the subject of JHC and cheapness, value for money,etc..why do we in the RAF still have commisioned officers flying SH when everyday I see SNCO AAC pilots doing the same job ? Okay, delivering blueys and cabbying the Brig about may be slightly diffrent to carrying a stick of paras but the 'driving' jobs just the same.
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Gas Fitter
A lot of the NCO aircrew in the RAF that I have met would be well up to doing the flying job, but for you it seems to be a question of " if they don't fit into the officers mess then they cant fly the aircraft".
History shows that the greatest achivments of the RAF would not have happend without NCO pilots.
History shows that the greatest achivments of the RAF would not have happend without NCO pilots.