Food For Thought For The Old And Bold
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Food For Thought For The Old And Bold
Have recnetly seen the new fitness test levels. At least a complete level rise for most and approx level 7.5 for the 50-54 age group!
So, how is this going to further affect morale which has already plummeted tremedously. The cinical amongst us will just see this as a further way of reducing the number of RAF personnel, but I'm sure is something alot more serious (Career Push for some O).
When will somebody realise the REMFs are actually in charge of the Air Force.
So, how is this going to further affect morale which has already plummeted tremedously. The cinical amongst us will just see this as a further way of reducing the number of RAF personnel, but I'm sure is something alot more serious (Career Push for some O).
When will somebody realise the REMFs are actually in charge of the Air Force.
No doubt the 50-54 range will be doing more than the youngest RAFW.
Wouldn't be so bothered about it if I didn't have to do the training all in my own time-probably unlike the apology who makes these decisions.
JG
Wouldn't be so bothered about it if I didn't have to do the training all in my own time-probably unlike the apology who makes these decisions.
JG
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Markerboy,
The AFT to date has set a pathetically low standard - the only embarrassment is that some pers still fail. The answer is to address the fitness and motivation of the failures - not lower the standard. Raising the bar is a step in the right direction for a combat service - I thought you would agree given your disdain of REMFs (though I challenge you to identify them by branch in the current climate).
Perhaps if recruits had to genuinely strive to achieve a standard, rather than passing out without ever having met an embarrassingly low one, then they would be proud of their achievement and maintain a level of fitness - vice leaving training and adopting a sedentary lifestyle based upon chips; no wonder the AFT then becomes a problem. Based on my experience, it will not be the 50-54 age bracket that provide the bulk of any failures.
And dear boy - use a spellchecker!
The AFT to date has set a pathetically low standard - the only embarrassment is that some pers still fail. The answer is to address the fitness and motivation of the failures - not lower the standard. Raising the bar is a step in the right direction for a combat service - I thought you would agree given your disdain of REMFs (though I challenge you to identify them by branch in the current climate).
Perhaps if recruits had to genuinely strive to achieve a standard, rather than passing out without ever having met an embarrassingly low one, then they would be proud of their achievement and maintain a level of fitness - vice leaving training and adopting a sedentary lifestyle based upon chips; no wonder the AFT then becomes a problem. Based on my experience, it will not be the 50-54 age bracket that provide the bulk of any failures.
And dear boy - use a spellchecker!
Chairborne Troopers have always been in charge....no matter which military you refer to.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Do the Abbey Wood warriors do the tests too?
The other 'out' is to be overweight and unable and unfit to do the fit test.
The other 'out' is to be overweight and unable and unfit to do the fit test.
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And while it doesn't help your RAF situation, for any comfort, the USAF has had the same low standards that most of us struggle to pass due to not giving exercise the time it should.
Our standards went up a couple of years past, still the lowest (and brunt of most jokes in the DoD) of any service, but as the years whizz by, I am glad that I am the PT monitor/test giver for my little group!
Our standards went up a couple of years past, still the lowest (and brunt of most jokes in the DoD) of any service, but as the years whizz by, I am glad that I am the PT monitor/test giver for my little group!
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As a 50+ year old I take my fitness seriously and managed to give myself a hernia while on the rowing maching. 'No problem,' thinks I, 'the medics will sort me out.' How wrong can you get? Four months to get an appointment at my local hospital, another 5 months (minimum) to have it fixed leaving me in daily discomfort since Feb. At the time I thought private medical insurance was a waste of money - no longer.
Yes personal fitness is a must but so is a standard of medical care that no longer exists. God help those getting hurt under training or on ops.
<Oops, almost had a rant there - sorry>
Yes personal fitness is a must but so is a standard of medical care that no longer exists. God help those getting hurt under training or on ops.
<Oops, almost had a rant there - sorry>
It must be such fun to be in the RAF these days - supreme grasp of the non-essential seems to be the over-riding order of the day.
I don't recall the oldies pulling anything less than their weight when I was on my first tour - and a happy and instructive bunch they were too! Nor did they keel over with heart attacks every few minutes.
Whilst I avoided the bolleaux of the utterly stupid and totally pointless jockstrapping test as far as was reasonably possible after it came in, when I PVR'd at the age of 52 I breezed the RAFFT and discharge bollock-fondling to make sure that no-one could accuse me of being unable to meet the contemporary requirements. Nonsense though they undoubtedly were.
Saw a documentary on the 1960s V-force not so long ago. How things were more civilised back then..... And, funnily enough, 50 year olds weren't expected to behave like a bunch of labourers from the SWO's working party....
I don't recall the oldies pulling anything less than their weight when I was on my first tour - and a happy and instructive bunch they were too! Nor did they keel over with heart attacks every few minutes.
Whilst I avoided the bolleaux of the utterly stupid and totally pointless jockstrapping test as far as was reasonably possible after it came in, when I PVR'd at the age of 52 I breezed the RAFFT and discharge bollock-fondling to make sure that no-one could accuse me of being unable to meet the contemporary requirements. Nonsense though they undoubtedly were.
Saw a documentary on the 1960s V-force not so long ago. How things were more civilised back then..... And, funnily enough, 50 year olds weren't expected to behave like a bunch of labourers from the SWO's working party....
They can raise the bar all they want, until they do something about the people that fail it will remain a meaningless waste of time.
By do something I would suggest extra PT until they can pass. If they still can't pass then surely there unfit to carry out there duties and should be dismissed. They won't do that though because they have invested lots of the queen's shillings in you.
Writing on a ACR he did not pass his fitness test but showed a positive attitude because he actually attended, does nothing and is the easy way out.
By do something I would suggest extra PT until they can pass. If they still can't pass then surely there unfit to carry out there duties and should be dismissed. They won't do that though because they have invested lots of the queen's shillings in you.
Writing on a ACR he did not pass his fitness test but showed a positive attitude because he actually attended, does nothing and is the easy way out.
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there unfit to carry out there duties
Obviously spelling isn't part of your duties. But at least you can run 5 miles - well done.
16B
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Back in the 50s Charles Mawghan of the London-Paris air race used to train by jumping from his quarter bedroom and doing pressups etc on the front lawn.
In 64, as OC IX, he ordered the RCAF 5X Plan. They arrived at one of the many secret Lincolnshire airbases where their importance in the maintenance of morale was recognised and they were locked up securely and subsequently shredded.
By about 1973, the C Med O wrote and said aircrew were not fit enough. By now Charlie was COS and instituted a quarterly 1 1/2 miles run but only for aircrew.
There was a sporadic takeup however 18Gp, realising that its aircrew needed to be fit to survive the rigours of combat etc were most enthusiastic. I did the run once, passed, half the crew failed, and as suggested earlier nothing happened.
For the next couple of years I submitted a signed list of times to the PEd staff every quarter as no one was allowed leave until they took their test. I didn't cheat. Anyone who failed the first test always failed the other tests albeit I would shorten their times if they looked fitterand lenghten them if they had got fatter
.
Unlike Beags I did not have that end of service medical; anyway I needed a fail to get my 'unfit' bonus which I duly got thanks to the RBL. - Pass my ear trumpet and walking sticks.
In 64, as OC IX, he ordered the RCAF 5X Plan. They arrived at one of the many secret Lincolnshire airbases where their importance in the maintenance of morale was recognised and they were locked up securely and subsequently shredded.
By about 1973, the C Med O wrote and said aircrew were not fit enough. By now Charlie was COS and instituted a quarterly 1 1/2 miles run but only for aircrew.
There was a sporadic takeup however 18Gp, realising that its aircrew needed to be fit to survive the rigours of combat etc were most enthusiastic. I did the run once, passed, half the crew failed, and as suggested earlier nothing happened.
For the next couple of years I submitted a signed list of times to the PEd staff every quarter as no one was allowed leave until they took their test. I didn't cheat. Anyone who failed the first test always failed the other tests albeit I would shorten their times if they looked fitterand lenghten them if they had got fatter
.Unlike Beags I did not have that end of service medical; anyway I needed a fail to get my 'unfit' bonus which I duly got thanks to the RBL. - Pass my ear trumpet and walking sticks.
Back in the late 70s or early 80s, some young thruster ordained that all aircrew of a certain large aeroplane squadron based not far from Burford were to complete X laps of the sports field.
Having first elicited what a sports field was and, more importantly, where it was, the old gents duly turned up. Complete with overcoats, dogs, walking sticks, the odd hip flask and pipe of tobacco. Then strolled at a leisurely pace, as befits a gentleman, for the requisite number of laps. It took all morning, but the thrusting racing snake who had come up with the idea had to stand and shiver in his jockstrapping kit whilst the old buggers slowly strolled about. "Come on chaps, let's run for a bit" was duly greeted with looks of astonishment and "Dear me, what an appalling notion. How very undignified!"
Having first elicited what a sports field was and, more importantly, where it was, the old gents duly turned up. Complete with overcoats, dogs, walking sticks, the odd hip flask and pipe of tobacco. Then strolled at a leisurely pace, as befits a gentleman, for the requisite number of laps. It took all morning, but the thrusting racing snake who had come up with the idea had to stand and shiver in his jockstrapping kit whilst the old buggers slowly strolled about. "Come on chaps, let's run for a bit" was duly greeted with looks of astonishment and "Dear me, what an appalling notion. How very undignified!"
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We are now a different air force and that change will only continue. We will never operate at our MOBs again - we will train there then mount from there and do our stuff elsewhere.
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together. In many ways, we are operating more like the Army, especially with the cycle EAWs brings.
None of this should detract from the lack of ability to put PT into the weekly programme and do it properly!
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together. In many ways, we are operating more like the Army, especially with the cycle EAWs brings.
None of this should detract from the lack of ability to put PT into the weekly programme and do it properly!
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Originally Posted by 16 blades
It depends on what their duties are. You do not need a high degree of physical fitness to fly an aircraft - it is a sedentary job. In 20 years I have never been required to run anywhere in the performance of my duties - I've never even been required to walk very far - transport takes me to and from the aircraft.
16B
16B
As to the pathetically low standards, they were set against predicted failure rates that the numbers of RAF PTIs could offer remedial training. Unsure where the influx of new PTIs has come from to deal with increased failures of both RAFFT and OFT.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by Mr C Hinecap
We are now a different air force and that change will only continue. We will never operate at our MOBs again - we will train there then mount from there and do our stuff elsewhere.
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together.
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together.
In the 70s onward the Harrier Force did not operate from MOB.
In FI in 82 the RAF groundcrews did not sit in an nice secure MOB during the campaign.
'Fit to Survive' was written in 1974 or thereabouts. The directive came down from on high but, as BEags said there was absolutely no incentive or interest at the bottom, or even half-way down.
For over 30 years we needed to be fit but their airships never grasped the nettle. Now we still have overfed, overweight, unfit SNCOs but doing a 'simple' annual test is no substitute for actually being continually fit.
It really all went down the tube when the V-Force dropped Wednesday after noon sports because it interfered with the flying programme and the chinagraph became king.
The problem is how to turn it around. It is 'easy' with new recruits, you set the standard as part of their employment and then make them stick at it. With the old sweats OTOH there is a proceedure but is would take well over a year to retire someone who did nothing to get fit and probably impossible if someone 'makes an effort' by turning up and failing.
It could take another 20 years before the shape of the air force changes.
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OK - we area different air force to the one which emerged blinking from the HAS at the end of the Cold War.
There is no way I was comparing to the earlier days of the NEAF etc. There are few enough still serving who can remember those days. My boss who retired this yr was the last Boy Entrant still serving, so I have an appreciation of what tha RAF was like over 40 yrs ago. Harrier & rotary were always special, but they have also changed. It still does not take away the need to bring fitness into the daily effort - taking new recruits who never did much before, training them, then putting them with old sweats who can't find time in the day is still not going to work.
There is no way I was comparing to the earlier days of the NEAF etc. There are few enough still serving who can remember those days. My boss who retired this yr was the last Boy Entrant still serving, so I have an appreciation of what tha RAF was like over 40 yrs ago. Harrier & rotary were always special, but they have also changed. It still does not take away the need to bring fitness into the daily effort - taking new recruits who never did much before, training them, then putting them with old sweats who can't find time in the day is still not going to work.
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re fitness test
Im in a job which unable to get away for circuits, OFT training which all are in work time generally, my lunchtime is 45 mins so cant do that circuits. Struggle to do fitness test, little sprinting not really my thing(5ft nowt lol). Yet always came up trumps for dets whether Bosnia or Iraq, didnt find them particular tasking for fitness even in the 50 degrees C of Iraq. So after 19 years if they chose to kick me out due to say failing a test I would be a peeved, though maybe its a good way for MOD to save money from my pension! .............damn just given them the idea!