Could all Pilots be Navs?!
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Having sat in the Nav's 'office' of a Canberra (on the ground), with the nose closed, I'll second that. Not a snow flakes chance in hell of anyone ever getting me to take off in those conditions. Fair play to those who did!
Anyone had thoughts as to who is going to fill Air Eng seats in E-3s after the last of that trade retire (long before the aircraft).
Could pilots be Air Engs? as most US airlines used to do.
Could WSOps be Air Engs? as Victor AEOs wanted to do on the VC10.
Could Navs be Air Engs?
Or would it be better to train bright young groundcrew lads/lasses to do this job. Full aircrew training plus an understanding of engineering from their previous trade would equip them nicely for this specialized job. You could even give them a different brevet to denote their skills. How about one similar to the WSOp but with - lets say an "E" for engineer in the centre. On second thoughts - nah it'll never work.
Tombstone - don't think the argies had any FJs with Navs except Canberras with no rocket seat. Might have been a Pucara?
Could pilots be Air Engs? as most US airlines used to do.
Could WSOps be Air Engs? as Victor AEOs wanted to do on the VC10.
Could Navs be Air Engs?
Or would it be better to train bright young groundcrew lads/lasses to do this job. Full aircrew training plus an understanding of engineering from their previous trade would equip them nicely for this specialized job. You could even give them a different brevet to denote their skills. How about one similar to the WSOp but with - lets say an "E" for engineer in the centre. On second thoughts - nah it'll never work.
Tombstone - don't think the argies had any FJs with Navs except Canberras with no rocket seat. Might have been a Pucara?
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Originally Posted by Brain Potter
Tombstone - don't think the argies had any FJs with Navs except Canberras with no rocket seat. Might have been a Pucara?
The term fast jet was relative to what was in theatre at the time and when comparing a/c speeds to that of the SHAR, everything was considered fast!
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Just to disappear down this tangent.....
Why would a 9L follow an ejectee, given the signature of the seat and its trajectory? Why/how would a front seater be able to command eject the rear chap without himself being ejected? Why would a pucara have a navigator? Tomba didn't when he was splashed and neither did his wing man..and if it wasn't a macchi or a pucara then it wasn't a twin seat argie aircraft in the Falklands.
Which all adds up to the entire episode being hoop, if you ask me...which i notice you didn't but thought i'd pitch in nonetheless.
Incidentally, hats off to those Canberra navs, but give a thought to Sea Vixen observers - no way you'd have caught me doing that!
Why would a 9L follow an ejectee, given the signature of the seat and its trajectory? Why/how would a front seater be able to command eject the rear chap without himself being ejected? Why would a pucara have a navigator? Tomba didn't when he was splashed and neither did his wing man..and if it wasn't a macchi or a pucara then it wasn't a twin seat argie aircraft in the Falklands.
Which all adds up to the entire episode being hoop, if you ask me...which i notice you didn't but thought i'd pitch in nonetheless.
Incidentally, hats off to those Canberra navs, but give a thought to Sea Vixen observers - no way you'd have caught me doing that!
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I read with interest a book about operating a B-24 during the Late Great Hate. (It was writtten by George McGovern, spectularly failed Presidential candidate, actually. He was a B-24 pilot during WWII when he got shot at too plenty. He lost the election to a guy who sat out the war on a rock in the Pacific playing poker.) There it was set down in black and white that the brainiest candidates were selected for Navigator with the less-bright being chosen as Pilots.
On the other hand, all the ex-Strategic Air Command guys I flew with were uniformly scathing in their opinions of Navigators. Perhaps one could put that down to jealousy.
On the other hand, all the ex-Strategic Air Command guys I flew with were uniformly scathing in their opinions of Navigators. Perhaps one could put that down to jealousy.
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Originally Posted by Tombstone
Perhaps it was a Pucara, if indeed the story is true!
Like I said, if it were true. Nonetheless, the thought of a Nav finding himself looking down on his a/c with a AIM9L coming up to say hi, whilst his ex pilot heads back for a tequila made me giggle.
A former colleague, now sadly departed, twice jettisoned a Sea Vixen from the observer's "coal hole". I believe the second was sub-surface from a bad catapult shot. I think he gave up FJs after that.
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Originally Posted by Fox2long
I know of at least 1 now harrier pilot who was a chopped Tonka nav? How do you explain that with all the rather have the fuel piffle??
On a serious note, I think that shows the limitations of OASC selection. People do slip through the net at great expense. Your colleague has had a great deal of money spent on him when, if selected properly the first time round, he could have gone straight into pilot training. He sounds like a good operator with plenty of mud moving experience!
An F3 mate of mine did a front seat conversion a few years back & is probably one hell of an operator as a result of his back seat knowledge.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by Tombstone
An F3 mate of mine did a front seat conversion a few years back & is probably one hell of an operator as a result of his back seat knowledge.
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"A Few Good Navs"
You want the truth, pilot? You can't handle the truth!
Son, we live in a world that has mountains, and those mountains have to be found by Navs with APN-59s. Who's gonna do it?
You? You, Major Stick Monkey?
We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for
a color copied chart and a decent box lunch, and you curse the Navs. You
have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know—that
a modified contour, while tragic, probably suppresses detection; and my
existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, dominates the
electromagnetic spectrum. You don't want the truth because deep down in
places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that radar—you
need me in that radar. We use words like "peanut," "cut," “ banana left”
and "painting black." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent
frustrating the enemy. You use them as a punch line.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who flies and fights under the blanket of recommended altitudes that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather that you just said "thank you" and fly SCNS centerline. Otherwise, I suggest you take
the next J-model assignment that comes around. Either way, I don't give
a damn what you think you’re entitled to fly.
You want the truth, pilot? You can't handle the truth!
Son, we live in a world that has mountains, and those mountains have to be found by Navs with APN-59s. Who's gonna do it?
You? You, Major Stick Monkey?
We have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for
a color copied chart and a decent box lunch, and you curse the Navs. You
have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know—that
a modified contour, while tragic, probably suppresses detection; and my
existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, dominates the
electromagnetic spectrum. You don't want the truth because deep down in
places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that radar—you
need me in that radar. We use words like "peanut," "cut," “ banana left”
and "painting black." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent
frustrating the enemy. You use them as a punch line.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who flies and fights under the blanket of recommended altitudes that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather that you just said "thank you" and fly SCNS centerline. Otherwise, I suggest you take
the next J-model assignment that comes around. Either way, I don't give
a damn what you think you’re entitled to fly.
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HEY! I'm a Barrier Operator and an acting corporal in the Royal Air Force and you're under arrest, you son of a bitch!
Sorry, wrong thread.
Quality post Brick History, I might even have to print that out and take it into work for the Navs to read. Have you got any with big pictures & small words?
Sorry, wrong thread.
Quality post Brick History, I might even have to print that out and take it into work for the Navs to read. Have you got any with big pictures & small words?
