Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Privatised Battlefield Support Helos

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Privatised Battlefield Support Helos

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 9th Aug 2006, 12:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Privatised Battlefield Support Helos

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...&modele=jdc_34

Whatever next, renting fast jets from Virgin?
Lazer-Hound is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 12:35
  #2 (permalink)  
Where R We?
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Isn't this like a PFI?

Estimated start date of the contract: 1/01/2011
- Estimated duration of the contract: 10 Years
- Date of dispatch of invitations to tender to selected candidates: 1/02/2007
- Time-limit for receipt of requests to participate (Date & Time): 30/09/2006 at 17:00

3.5 yrs to get it sorted...
 
Old 9th Aug 2006, 12:47
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Crossing Charlie
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Renting Helicopters

Frankly if this is the only way we can get modern helicopters onto the front line to cover the now nationally agreed shortfall in as short a time as that predicted then lets do it.

The services have been operating COMR fleets for some time so this is nothing out of the ordinary.

So whats it going to be?

NH 90
S-92
EH 101
AB 139

Anyone any other ideas?

LB
Low Ball is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 12:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If it gets decent kit for our people at a realistic cost, just do it!

Question: If a helicopter is lost thru accident or enemy action, what happens then? Does MOD have to purchase the lost aircraft? Really can't imagine the owner being able to insure against military operations risks.
I ask this because all of the COMR arrangements thus far are mainly for training use in the UK or training/support tasks abroad where hostilities are unlikely.

Then again, what's the deal on leased C17 ?
microlight AV8R is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 15:10
  #5 (permalink)  
mlc
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midlands
Age: 55
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The MOD are apparently looking to retire all our 119 Gazelles and replace them with 20 rented replacements.

I'd love to know how good they were at sums during their school days!!!!!!
mlc is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 17:32
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
119 Gazelles..??? where the heck are they..?
vecvechookattack is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 17:41
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vecvechookattack
119 Gazelles..??? where the heck are they..?
I suspect we wouldn't have enough crews for them if they were all airworthy anyway !

119/20 is still a strange ratio though.
microlight AV8R is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 19:56
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Civil Owned Military Registered"? Is that legal? Presumably the Contractor will deploy with them to carry out repairs and maintenance. Don’t forward operating bases tend to be a bit dangerous?

I always thought it so apt when the DLO formed IPTs into Clusters, except that I’m sure there’s a word missing.
GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 20:46
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Used to be God's own County
Posts: 1,719
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
now you know what Dauphineer was on about in the other thread..........................
EESDL is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 21:37
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 64
Posts: 2,278
Received 36 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
"Civil Owned Military Registered"? Is that legal? Presumably the Contractor will deploy with them to carry out repairs and maintenance. Don’t forward operating bases tend to be a bit dangerous?

I always thought it so apt when the DLO formed IPTs into Clusters, except that I’m sure there’s a word missing.
Are they Clusters or ClusterFcuks?
ZH875 is online now  
Old 9th Aug 2006, 21:43
  #11 (permalink)  
Green Flash
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
And when the sh!t starts flying, the contractors/hired hands/LEC's/slaves will hang around, bravely spannering whilst dodging the cr@p, all properly protected?


Really?
 
Old 10th Aug 2006, 06:51
  #12 (permalink)  
Hellbound
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't get confused between the aircraft lease and Service-provision. There is no suggestion that these would be supported forward by contractors - think of it like the C17 lease, we will pay wildly over the odds to lease aircraft we can't afford to buy until a replacement arrives in 2020, but in the meantime it will be operated and maintained by Service manpower! It looks like the aircraft are there to replace the Puma that will leave Service in 2012 (IIRC) and fill the gap until someone gets round to sorting a replacement.

How difficult can it be to pick up the phone to Boeing and say ' can I please have another 25 Chinook, pretty please with sugar on top'???
South Bound is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2006, 11:42
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: east of england
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
[QUOTE

How difficult can it be to pick up the phone to Boeing and say ' can I please have another 25 Chinook, pretty please with sugar on top'???[/QUOTE]


It's not at all difficult to ask the question. The eye-wateringly difficult bit is coping with the shock of the bill for it all.
Weezer is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2006, 11:54
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Weezer

Dead right, not very good value for money when considering the last lot we bought still don't work!!
microlight AV8R is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2006, 12:22
  #15 (permalink)  
Hellbound
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
lol, buy G-models off the shelf - WAY cheaper than Merlin.

There was nothing wrong with the Mk3's until the UK tried to overcomplicate things - DPA messed that one up, not Boeing.
South Bound is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2006, 09:49
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wessex
Posts: 485
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GBZ ""Civil Owned Military Registered"? Is that legal?"
Apparently it is legal, Bell 212's operated in Belize on behalf of the Army - follow the link to show the contract extension on them. http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/D...1-88e7d4e2f07e
Rocket2 is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2006, 10:13
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Somerset
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just remember peeps that COMR lease solutions don't come cheap, plus there's problems with how we financially treat them etc.

So whilst a leased solution might provide you with an updated capability in quick flash to bang times, don't assume we could afford as many as we would need.

Re: 112 gazelle to 20 (other).

The gazelle's aren't deployable so are a waste of space and money. Better use the money on less, but more capable aircraft that we can deploy - post conflict of course!

nb: of course, they will have to be flown by the Army - lest we get a shed load of v.v.bored aircrew!
Mr-AEO is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2006, 12:27
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rocket 2

I take your point but, even in that case, it's training support. This is proposing direct support to offensive operations. I should have clarified that point.
GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2006, 13:39
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rocket / GBZ

Add to 'COMR' list:

Bell 212 AAC, Brunei (Jungle warfare training)
Bell 412 RAF, Akrotiri (SAR/Support)
King Air RAF, Cranwell (multi-engine training)

Southbound

Fair comment re the Mk3. I really can't understand why we have to redesign everything we buy. Methinks this is a big factor in time and cost overruns we see so much of the time.

Would still like to know how the taxpayer will be stitched up in the event of operational losses. As the supplier has to make a profit it would seem that COMR will inevitably be more expensive than purchase off the shelf.
COMR makes sense for the two AAC examples and for stop-gaps (KingAir?) but large scale fleet renewal can't make economic sense, shirley?
microlight AV8R is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2006, 13:58
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
And Griffins & Squirrels at Shawbury, Wallop & Valley.
BossEyed is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.