Mercenary Helos?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Mercenary Helos?
Any idea who he is talking about? Who is out there in the UK with the right helos, support equipment and crews for the theatre?.......
Col Tim Collins in Sunday Torygraph:
....................Several prominent members of the House of Lords have expressed their disquiet about helicopter support for forces deployed in combat zones. Senior ministers and civil servants tut-tut about this from the safety of Westminster. I commanded an Air Assault Battalion in war - here are the facts. The UK's helicopter fleet is exhausted. It is too small to begin with and many of the aircraft are elderly. The effects of operating in the deserts of Iraq and in the hot and high environments of Afghanistan have taken a serious toll of the main components, and there is a crisis in the availability of spares and, more importantly, in the skilled technicians who fit them. We have a finite number of pilots and they are badly overstretched, too.
The hostile conditions - physical and military - in both theatres dictate that much of the daily administrative movement must be done by air, increasing the workload on the airframes and crews, and depriving the front line of support. So the helicopters are not available when needed and soldiers are going on patrol on foot or in antique vehicles such as the Spartan in which three men were killed in Afghanistan last week. These were designed in the 1950s and provide no protection against the modern weapons with which most guerrillas are equipped. Like the Snatch Land Rovers, they are not fit for purpose in the 21st century.
No war can be fought without sufficient numbers of troops, so front-line units must reflect the age-old norms for deployment. And there must also be sufficient, uncommitted reserves - of one fifth to one third the size of the deployed combat troops - to deal with the all-too-common unexpected. Additionally, we need to hold an uncommitted reserve at home to deal with the unexpected globally.
Finally, there needs to be a realistic exploration of workable short-term solutions. There are available now, for instance, support helicopters with British firms, piloted by retired British Services pilots, some of them Special Forces, ready to go forward to do whatever is required in Afghanistan. The US already harnesses private companies for these tasks. Why not our own nation in support of the hard-pressed servicemen?
Col Tim Collins in Sunday Torygraph:
....................Several prominent members of the House of Lords have expressed their disquiet about helicopter support for forces deployed in combat zones. Senior ministers and civil servants tut-tut about this from the safety of Westminster. I commanded an Air Assault Battalion in war - here are the facts. The UK's helicopter fleet is exhausted. It is too small to begin with and many of the aircraft are elderly. The effects of operating in the deserts of Iraq and in the hot and high environments of Afghanistan have taken a serious toll of the main components, and there is a crisis in the availability of spares and, more importantly, in the skilled technicians who fit them. We have a finite number of pilots and they are badly overstretched, too.
The hostile conditions - physical and military - in both theatres dictate that much of the daily administrative movement must be done by air, increasing the workload on the airframes and crews, and depriving the front line of support. So the helicopters are not available when needed and soldiers are going on patrol on foot or in antique vehicles such as the Spartan in which three men were killed in Afghanistan last week. These were designed in the 1950s and provide no protection against the modern weapons with which most guerrillas are equipped. Like the Snatch Land Rovers, they are not fit for purpose in the 21st century.
No war can be fought without sufficient numbers of troops, so front-line units must reflect the age-old norms for deployment. And there must also be sufficient, uncommitted reserves - of one fifth to one third the size of the deployed combat troops - to deal with the all-too-common unexpected. Additionally, we need to hold an uncommitted reserve at home to deal with the unexpected globally.
Finally, there needs to be a realistic exploration of workable short-term solutions. There are available now, for instance, support helicopters with British firms, piloted by retired British Services pilots, some of them Special Forces, ready to go forward to do whatever is required in Afghanistan. The US already harnesses private companies for these tasks. Why not our own nation in support of the hard-pressed servicemen?
Last edited by ORAC; 6th Aug 2006 at 07:37.
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It is indeed fortunate that Col Tim is able to give his advice, impart his wisdom and so demonstrate his wide and deep knowledge on all matters military to the readers of the Sunday Torygraph.
I honestly don't know how I would manage without him
Edited for my appalling typing.
I honestly don't know how I would manage without him
Edited for my appalling typing.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 6th Aug 2006 at 08:20.
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Ah Col Tim, the saviour of the Armed Forces.
Is it just me who thinks he is the new Francis Tusa just with the added 'benefit' of a bit of service under his belt? Both seemingly clueless but both seemingly judged an authority in military matters by the News International group.
Is it just me who thinks he is the new Francis Tusa just with the added 'benefit' of a bit of service under his belt? Both seemingly clueless but both seemingly judged an authority in military matters by the News International group.
Funny thing going on here.....correct me if I am wrong. Has not the topic of "over stretch" , "shortage of kit", "shortage of manpower", "lack of troops and aircraft" not been the general topic of discussion lately?
Seems Colonel Tim has an Amen Chorus here that suddenly clamps up when someone begins to say the same thing in public.
I can go back and do a search of threads and start quoting several dozen of you to prove my position if need be. Or, do we not wish to go there?
Perhaps if he had used the Guardian as a vehicle to express his opinion it would have been more acceptable to some of you.
He is telling the truth in most regards....the UK military is under-equipped and is facing budget cuts again next year. That does not bode for good news on the battlefield Gents.
Seems Colonel Tim has an Amen Chorus here that suddenly clamps up when someone begins to say the same thing in public.
I can go back and do a search of threads and start quoting several dozen of you to prove my position if need be. Or, do we not wish to go there?
Perhaps if he had used the Guardian as a vehicle to express his opinion it would have been more acceptable to some of you.
He is telling the truth in most regards....the UK military is under-equipped and is facing budget cuts again next year. That does not bode for good news on the battlefield Gents.
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Originally Posted by ORAC
There are available now, for instance, support helicopters with British firms, piloted by retired British Services pilots, some of them Special Forces, ready to go forward to do whatever is required in Afghanistan.
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who?
I think you'll find most guys at Odiham know who, it's been on the table a few times this past year!
Not FBH! Nor the same bunch who shipped the pristine dinosaur to Belize!
And who said Ch47 and AH? I've always said the latter seems like a fairly poor troop carrier!
Not FBH! Nor the same bunch who shipped the pristine dinosaur to Belize!
And who said Ch47 and AH? I've always said the latter seems like a fairly poor troop carrier!
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A question, dear readers. All pigs take to the air at 0900 tomorow morning when it is anounced that we are to buy another sqn of wokkas, or whatever. How long, realistically, before they are up the sharp end? (procurement, building the flippin' things, shipping them, bringing into service/training, getting them to theatre not to mention where the people are coming from). Point I'm getting at is even if they do the right thing now then it's still too late as they are needed now, or 6 months ago.
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Originally Posted by Dauphineer
And who said Ch47 and AH?
Or are you referring to SF helo ops in which case that's another discussion entirely and will hardly solve the SH drought.
Are there not two sheds full of Wokka's and Apache's setting around gathering dust?
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Ch & Ah
You started it!
I was just suggesting that there are other things out there not necessarily CH 47 shaped. No commercial outfit could afford to use a CH47 (remember the North Sea) but there are a few other types that will do. Remember the point is to free up the frontline assets by doing the donkey work elsewhere, it could be in the same theatre, alongside the other assets, but half the time it’s movement of men and kit around the place that is in short supply.
As you can see by my handle I have an idea or two on other assets but that is because I have worked on Eurocopters all over the world and have some in mind! No not the 365 before you ask!
Speaking of which mine is due home from a rig near Blackpool in about 20 minutes so I must go and put the kettle on!
I was just suggesting that there are other things out there not necessarily CH 47 shaped. No commercial outfit could afford to use a CH47 (remember the North Sea) but there are a few other types that will do. Remember the point is to free up the frontline assets by doing the donkey work elsewhere, it could be in the same theatre, alongside the other assets, but half the time it’s movement of men and kit around the place that is in short supply.
As you can see by my handle I have an idea or two on other assets but that is because I have worked on Eurocopters all over the world and have some in mind! No not the 365 before you ask!
Speaking of which mine is due home from a rig near Blackpool in about 20 minutes so I must go and put the kettle on!
Dauphs,
There's a small town in the Oregon that is the home of a civilain outfit that has been making money with a fleet of Chinooks to include some of the North Sea birds. Google ramble for Columbia Helicopters and see what you come up with. Perhaps the clanging of some Huey blades have you confused a mite.
There's a small town in the Oregon that is the home of a civilain outfit that has been making money with a fleet of Chinooks to include some of the North Sea birds. Google ramble for Columbia Helicopters and see what you come up with. Perhaps the clanging of some Huey blades have you confused a mite.
Alas, Hevilift lost a Crane and two pilots a few days ago....while fighting a fire in California. Some sort of catastrophic failure at/near hover at the dip point. No details yet.
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Who is Col Tim adertising for? Does he still work for Aegis? There are several firms out there who provide their own air assets, but does the UK govt have the bottle to employ them for mainstream activities? The black side of things will always provide a steady small market, but can they really step up to provide a large scale SH type operation in a non-permissive environment? If so, why aren't they shopping for experienced SH pilots?
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There are available now, for instance, support helicopters with British firms, piloted by retired British Services pilots, some of them Special Forces, ready to go forward
Why the fascination with all things SF, anyway? Does Mrs C like him to wear a black balaclava for those "intimate moments"? I think we should be told
HMG politically could not hire in civilian assets - they'd be admitting in public what we all know in private.
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SF just sounds a bit more sexy. What would you rather read AA - Bravo Two Zero or a stunning account of doing top cover on a Snatch Rover for 6 months in Iraq?
People like Tom Clancy have been writing books for years about privately funded covert units carrying out clandestine action and it all fulfills the needs of the conspiracy theorists. There is an emerging gap in the market where a civvy firm will look to move in, but it is a political minefield. It also wouldn't be cheap, but with some people looking at their 3rd Christmas in a row in the sandpit and less people wanting to join then perhaps it's a resource we should tap into.
People like Tom Clancy have been writing books for years about privately funded covert units carrying out clandestine action and it all fulfills the needs of the conspiracy theorists. There is an emerging gap in the market where a civvy firm will look to move in, but it is a political minefield. It also wouldn't be cheap, but with some people looking at their 3rd Christmas in a row in the sandpit and less people wanting to join then perhaps it's a resource we should tap into.
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Dauphineer is closer to the truth than some others here.
What Tim Collins didn't say is that the personnel and equipment are on some kind of permanent retainer. He may be a little optimistic with the scale of what he is suggesting, but the hardware, and the people are readily available if you look worldwide.
Many organisations (mostly very large corporations with expensive assets abroad) will have a good idea how to access the right resources.
What Tim Collins didn't say is that the personnel and equipment are on some kind of permanent retainer. He may be a little optimistic with the scale of what he is suggesting, but the hardware, and the people are readily available if you look worldwide.
Many organisations (mostly very large corporations with expensive assets abroad) will have a good idea how to access the right resources.