ATPL for fast jet mates
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ATPL for fast jet mates
As a fast jet pilot rapidly approaching my 38/16 point with few options, I'm after some advice regarding getting my licences to make that step into the big bad world. Does anyone have any recommendations/cautionary tales regarding the use of ELC, which flight school, etc..?
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Bristol Ground School. See your Unit Learning Adviser first.
It's more expensive if you missed out on the ELC scheme
Exeter for the IR. Expect to pay around £5,000 or so.
PM if you want more (Not FJ, but have ATPL
)
It's more expensive if you missed out on the ELC scheme
Exeter for the IR. Expect to pay around £5,000 or so.
PM if you want more (Not FJ, but have ATPL
)
Originally Posted by valient
As a fast jet pilot rapidly approaching my 38/16 point with few options, I'm after some advice regarding getting my licences to make that step into the big bad world. Does anyone have any recommendations/cautionary tales regarding the use of ELC, which flight school, etc..?
And cue BEagle...............
Maybe BEagle is away on one of his regular trips to Germany? He is the man with all the answers when it comes to military folk and ATPLs.
However, there must be dozens of historical posts on this forum repeating the very question asked here. I know, ploughing through the chaff of past postings to get to the wheat is a right pain in the rear.
I, too, would recommend Bristol Ground School and you may see an ad of theirs somewhere on this very website. Alex Whittingham (ex-RAF) and team are the dog's whatsits when it comes to getting you through the exams.
However, there must be dozens of historical posts on this forum repeating the very question asked here. I know, ploughing through the chaff of past postings to get to the wheat is a right pain in the rear.
I, too, would recommend Bristol Ground School and you may see an ad of theirs somewhere on this very website. Alex Whittingham (ex-RAF) and team are the dog's whatsits when it comes to getting you through the exams.
Yes, hi chums - I have indeed been away checking on car parks...
In fact I'm stuck in Munich airport for 6 hours thanks to the inbound flight from Bremen being late.... But hey ho, free booze in the air conditioned LH Senator lounge and a €30 compensation voucher will make the time go quite easily.
A bit like the compensation Ascot's pax usually get these days, I guess?
Anyway, back to the ATPL for pointy people thing. Alex Whittingham at Bristol Ground School (www.bristol.gs )has made mil-to-civ exams a speciality, so I thoroughly endorse everyone elses' comments. He is also an approved provider under the Early Learning Centre scheme.
For the flying credits, valient, do you have:
At least 2000 hrs military flying
At least 1500 hrs PIC ('captain') time.
If so, you will only need to do 4 rather than 14 theory exams. You cannot get an 'ATPL' unless you have 500 hrs co-piglet time - that means in a 2-pilot aircraft which needs 2 pilots to fly it, not a 2-stick fighter trainer. You will also be exempt from the FRTOL ('RT') exam and practical; however, I think that you'll need to do the Multi Crew Cooperation course. But you will need to do a CPL/IR; you are well advised to do this on a multi-engine aeroplane such as the Seneca.
All that will give you a 'frozen' ATPL; the correct term for which is the CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge credit. But you will have shed loads of flying experinece, so finding a job shouldn't be too hard. Although gone are the days where the words 'Reds' or 'Bona' would get you into Cathay Pathetic without further formality.
Good luck - time for another glass of bubbly, methinks!
In fact I'm stuck in Munich airport for 6 hours thanks to the inbound flight from Bremen being late.... But hey ho, free booze in the air conditioned LH Senator lounge and a €30 compensation voucher will make the time go quite easily.
A bit like the compensation Ascot's pax usually get these days, I guess?
Anyway, back to the ATPL for pointy people thing. Alex Whittingham at Bristol Ground School (www.bristol.gs )has made mil-to-civ exams a speciality, so I thoroughly endorse everyone elses' comments. He is also an approved provider under the Early Learning Centre scheme.
For the flying credits, valient, do you have:
At least 2000 hrs military flying
At least 1500 hrs PIC ('captain') time.
If so, you will only need to do 4 rather than 14 theory exams. You cannot get an 'ATPL' unless you have 500 hrs co-piglet time - that means in a 2-pilot aircraft which needs 2 pilots to fly it, not a 2-stick fighter trainer. You will also be exempt from the FRTOL ('RT') exam and practical; however, I think that you'll need to do the Multi Crew Cooperation course. But you will need to do a CPL/IR; you are well advised to do this on a multi-engine aeroplane such as the Seneca.
All that will give you a 'frozen' ATPL; the correct term for which is the CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge credit. But you will have shed loads of flying experinece, so finding a job shouldn't be too hard. Although gone are the days where the words 'Reds' or 'Bona' would get you into Cathay Pathetic without further formality.
Good luck - time for another glass of bubbly, methinks!
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A far easier course of action would have been:
a) Not try so hard at school.
b) Fail BFTS & go Gp II
c) Spend TELIC 1 in a 5* hotel
d) Wave goodbye with a freebie ATPL.
ps - Its not all greener on the other side, I keep finding lesbian hosties.
Hope it all works out
a) Not try so hard at school.
b) Fail BFTS & go Gp II
c) Spend TELIC 1 in a 5* hotel
d) Wave goodbye with a freebie ATPL.
ps - Its not all greener on the other side, I keep finding lesbian hosties.
Hope it all works out
Did you really manage to achieve the 'experienced QSP' requirements by the age of 31? Well done - our original estimate (admittedly before all Bliar's wars) reckoned on about 34 as the normal age to meet the 2000/1500/1000 requirements.
Good luck with 'curing' your hosties.....
Good luck with 'curing' your hosties.....
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Thanks for all the info - have contacted Bristol. Does anyone know the deal if having got your licences you decide to stay in (PMA goes mad, or dare I say a good FRI) - how long is the IRT valid etc..?
As far as the IR is concerned - you could not do better than talk to Brian Marindin (Boss and ex FAA FJ pilot, ex Cathay, etc, etc.) of Airways Flight Training at Exeter. He even got me over this hurdle! Good luck. J
From LASORS:
"The holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with JAR-FCL ATPL Theory credit will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) Theoretical knowledge examination for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)."
You will probably have obtained your CPL/IR on something like a Seneca. Your licence will thus include a Multi Engine Piston Class Rating, which requires annual revalidation. Of course you can also add a Single Engine Piston Class Rating, which needs biennial revalidation - if either ratings lapse you can renew them with suitable renewal Skill Tests, but if you don't then your licence will need re-issuing after 5 years - and for this you will then need to hold a current JAA Class 1 medical and a current Class or Type Rating.
If you let your civil IR lapse by less than 5 years, you can renew it with an authorised examiner. Let it lapse by 5-7 years and you will need to renew it with a CAA Staff Examiner; let it lapse by 7 years or more and as well as having to renew it with a CAA Staff Examiner you will also have to re-take all the exams, including the ones you were previously exempted.....
By then you would be around 45 years old and of less interest to an airline than you would be at 38. So think carefully - it would have to be a very attractive FRI, I would suggest!
"The holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with JAR-FCL ATPL Theory credit will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) Theoretical knowledge examination for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)."
You will probably have obtained your CPL/IR on something like a Seneca. Your licence will thus include a Multi Engine Piston Class Rating, which requires annual revalidation. Of course you can also add a Single Engine Piston Class Rating, which needs biennial revalidation - if either ratings lapse you can renew them with suitable renewal Skill Tests, but if you don't then your licence will need re-issuing after 5 years - and for this you will then need to hold a current JAA Class 1 medical and a current Class or Type Rating.
If you let your civil IR lapse by less than 5 years, you can renew it with an authorised examiner. Let it lapse by 5-7 years and you will need to renew it with a CAA Staff Examiner; let it lapse by 7 years or more and as well as having to renew it with a CAA Staff Examiner you will also have to re-take all the exams, including the ones you were previously exempted.....
By then you would be around 45 years old and of less interest to an airline than you would be at 38. So think carefully - it would have to be a very attractive FRI, I would suggest!
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Suppose you still had 9 years left to do....... when should I look at getting my admin in order and calling BGS so an ATPL fits in nicely with being released, and how long does it take (assuming I have met the mil hours requirement by then)?
Would I be better off leaving this sinking ship in a few years at my 32 point in terms of being more attractive to the civvy world?
Ta
Ray.
Would I be better off leaving this sinking ship in a few years at my 32 point in terms of being more attractive to the civvy world?
Ta
Ray.
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ATPLs
Everyone has different levels of experience, hours, ac types etc, so please check out CAA's LASORs - section G4 to see if you have any service dispensations - it can save you a bob or 3. The CAA will expect you to have read this before you start making enquiries with them.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_06_WEB.pdf
If you need any light aircraft time (non-twin, mostly), then the RAF/Service Flying clubs are fine to get you on the PPL/IMC rating road, Brize's being the biggest at the moment, though not necessarily the cheapest. The following link may work for you.
http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/welfare/c...ca/glider1.htm
Check out your prospective civvie employer at;
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/
or
http://www.futureairlinepilot.com/airlinecontact.html
(or any other similar civ pilot sites)
I hope this helps
Bon chance
Flip
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_06_WEB.pdf
If you need any light aircraft time (non-twin, mostly), then the RAF/Service Flying clubs are fine to get you on the PPL/IMC rating road, Brize's being the biggest at the moment, though not necessarily the cheapest. The following link may work for you.
http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/welfare/c...ca/glider1.htm
Check out your prospective civvie employer at;
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/
or
http://www.futureairlinepilot.com/airlinecontact.html
(or any other similar civ pilot sites)
I hope this helps
Bon chance
Flip
Last edited by flipster; 30th Jul 2006 at 08:03.
