Does Cpl Clegg get exonerated now?
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Originally Posted by BellEndBob
An absolute shambles. The Police cocked it up from start to finish and the idiots with the guns lost control IMHO. SEVEN bullets? Not only should there be charges but some of those in so called charge should be sacked as well.
British Police Service, what a joke.
British Police Service, what a joke.
Of the seven bullets fired, one missed and one hit the suspects shoulder. The remaining five bullets hit his head as per SOPs. In other words, the armed police officers followed their orders to the letter IMHO.
The guys with the guns entered the underground with instructions to shoot. An order to hold fire was subsequently issued however, due to the fire team being underground, they never received it. That is an acknowledged fact.
It's a nasty case but slating the guys is not going to solve anything. The Police made a mistake this time however, I'm sure they will save many lives on future ops.
Sounds like Cpl Clegg got the dirty end of the stick here!
What is it he was supposed to have done wrong?
Perhaps vehicles that refuse to stop at a VCP should just be waved at and ignored?
What is it he was supposed to have done wrong?
Perhaps vehicles that refuse to stop at a VCP should just be waved at and ignored?
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At the time of the Cpl Clegg case ROE's in Ulster allowed troops to shoot at vehicles if they were being driven in a way that would endanger you or your patrol. Infact it wasn't that long ago that mainland UK ROE's had such a clause.
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Thats a very good point however, not being a squaddie, I do not know enough about the incident to offer an educated reply reference Cpl Clegg.
Is he still serving?
Is he still serving?
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
CPS - "Why did you fire 7 rounds into the suspect?"
Copper - "Because my pistol jammed".
It does seem strange when troops who served in Iraq have their identities splashed across the press and are hounded by the CPS over an alleged murder that had no body, no witnesses and no motive whereas a few coppers who definately need to read up the white card ROE's 'get away' with the cold-blooded murder of an innocent by-stander in a London tube station.
Copper - "Because my pistol jammed".
It does seem strange when troops who served in Iraq have their identities splashed across the press and are hounded by the CPS over an alleged murder that had no body, no witnesses and no motive whereas a few coppers who definately need to read up the white card ROE's 'get away' with the cold-blooded murder of an innocent by-stander in a London tube station.
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Originally Posted by ZH875
Only if you overstay by several years.
Maybe we can start ethnic cleansing, by getting rid of rogue asylum seekers and Muppets at the same time.
Maybe we can start ethnic cleansing, by getting rid of rogue asylum seekers and
Muppets at the same time.
Oops spelling a weak point again !!
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Was it not the case that the rules of engagement extant at the time, and adhered to by Cpl Clegg, were not valid under NI Law? Subsequently, it was found that they were not valid under Scottish law either. The rules had to be redrafted and we ended up with different rules depending where you were in UK, and the total nonsense of different challenges by "Gate Guards" dependant on whether their weapon was loaded or not.
The cases are not dissimilar in that the person who pulls the trigger has a right to expect that their actions, in accordance with the orders that they have been given by a superior, are lawful.
If Cpl Clegg had NOT opened fire, would he have been charged with "Dereliction of Duty"?
The cases are not dissimilar in that the person who pulls the trigger has a right to expect that their actions, in accordance with the orders that they have been given by a superior, are lawful.
If Cpl Clegg had NOT opened fire, would he have been charged with "Dereliction of Duty"?
It is a long time ago now, and I haven't done any research on the matter, but I seem to remember that the scenario was along the following lines. Cpl Clegg fired several, 3-4 shots, at a car as it approached him and failed to stop. Most of the shots were considered "legal" (for want of a better term) as the car was still appraoching him, but the last shot was considered "illegal" in that the car was now abreast him and going away, hence no longer fullfilling the criteria he was given.
Pretty tough call for a scared 18 year old to make, in the cold and dark, while lawers debated it at length in the subsequent luxury of a courtroom.
Still, my recollection could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time......
Pretty tough call for a scared 18 year old to make, in the cold and dark, while lawers debated it at length in the subsequent luxury of a courtroom.
Still, my recollection could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time......
Well for all you that have cried there is no prosecution for murder in the subway shooting, you can rest easy as a much worse charge is forthcoming....something about violating HSE regulations! Now that is a fate worse than death in these days and times!
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Originally Posted by cazatou
Given the news that NO individuals will face charges over the shooting of an innocent man at Stockwell Underground Station; is it not time that Cpl Clegg of the Parachute Regt is formally exonerated for carrying out his duty at a VCP in N Ireland?
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We have to remember that the Police Unit that supplied the Firearms Personnel for this Incident was the same unit whose Personnel shot dead a man carrying a self loading,semi automatic table leg in a carrier bag. The information resulting in this action emanated from someone in a Pub!
