Veterans' Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Veterans' Day
Is it:
a. This Government's recognition of the valuable contribution made to our great Nation by those men and women who, through its history, have been willing to put their lives on the line to defend Britain and her overseas interests, as well as being instrumental in defeating such tyranny as we saw in both World Wars; or,
b. A frantic and undignified attempt by an aloof government to show that, in spite of all of the indications to the contrary (falling defence spending (as opposed to budget), cutting thousands of personnel, decimating the Royal Navy's surface fleet, ditching perfectly capable regiments, imposing the hated and immoral PAYD on us (captive audience for profit, anyone?), failing to supply us with adequate kit, failing to protect personnel against largely unfounded allegations of war crimes, playing petty politics with defence spending and - worst of all - imposing Buff on us), it actually gives a s**t about the Armed Forces?
Whatever, I hope it does educate people about those who have gone before us. As ever, I salute those who have risked everything for their country.... but I think many of them were perfectly satisfied with Remembrance Sunday.
a. This Government's recognition of the valuable contribution made to our great Nation by those men and women who, through its history, have been willing to put their lives on the line to defend Britain and her overseas interests, as well as being instrumental in defeating such tyranny as we saw in both World Wars; or,
b. A frantic and undignified attempt by an aloof government to show that, in spite of all of the indications to the contrary (falling defence spending (as opposed to budget), cutting thousands of personnel, decimating the Royal Navy's surface fleet, ditching perfectly capable regiments, imposing the hated and immoral PAYD on us (captive audience for profit, anyone?), failing to supply us with adequate kit, failing to protect personnel against largely unfounded allegations of war crimes, playing petty politics with defence spending and - worst of all - imposing Buff on us), it actually gives a s**t about the Armed Forces?
Whatever, I hope it does educate people about those who have gone before us. As ever, I salute those who have risked everything for their country.... but I think many of them were perfectly satisfied with Remembrance Sunday.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if I would agree wholeheartedly with B, but it certainly isn't A.
Might I venture a C?
c. A cynical attempt by NuLabour politicians held in extremely low public esteem to acquire some of the sheen off the public's respect for the Armed Forces while they troop around the country handing out silly little 'Blue Peter' type veterans badges.
"Badgees? ... Badgees? ... We don't want your fecking badgees!"
Might I venture a C?
c. A cynical attempt by NuLabour politicians held in extremely low public esteem to acquire some of the sheen off the public's respect for the Armed Forces while they troop around the country handing out silly little 'Blue Peter' type veterans badges.
"Badgees? ... Badgees? ... We don't want your fecking badgees!"
Instead of giving politicians yet another opportunity to cavort in front of the media, why won't the Government sort out the appalling incompetance that allows "An 88-year-old veteran of the Burma campaign ... living in penury because Whitehall bureaucrats are refusing to pay him full £86,000 recompense after a pension error." see Daily Telegraph 26/6/06
That would do for starters ...
That would do for starters ...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On inaugural Veterans Day lets have a pardon for all those wrongly executed by firing squad for supposed desertion to duty on the battlefield. It is the least we can do for them and their families.
How about this concept....
Next time you see and old geezer wearing his medals at an airshow, ceremony, parade, or funeral...don't just walk on by. Stop, offer your hand, a salute (hand and/or verbal) and a real heart felt "thank you".
Take a minute or two and ask him about "his" service and show some geniune interest in his well being.
If it catches on.....it might be you standing there on your cane one day and think how you would appreciate such a gesture.
Next time you see and old geezer wearing his medals at an airshow, ceremony, parade, or funeral...don't just walk on by. Stop, offer your hand, a salute (hand and/or verbal) and a real heart felt "thank you".
Take a minute or two and ask him about "his" service and show some geniune interest in his well being.
If it catches on.....it might be you standing there on your cane one day and think how you would appreciate such a gesture.
Nigerian In Law
Sas,
Good idea, except for the politicians. That would require the New Labour types to display a characteristic which appears to have been brainwashed out of politicians since 97 - RESPECT.
Both for the old who went all over the world and did their duty so these touchy feely lefties could exercise their freedom and for the forces who continue to do so in dangerous theatres under increasingly under funded, under manned and under supported conditions. In my 15 years in the mob I never once heard or saw any serviceman/woman show anything but the utmost respect for veterans. I was (and am still) proud.
Rant over. I'm off down the pub.
NEO
Good idea, except for the politicians. That would require the New Labour types to display a characteristic which appears to have been brainwashed out of politicians since 97 - RESPECT.
Both for the old who went all over the world and did their duty so these touchy feely lefties could exercise their freedom and for the forces who continue to do so in dangerous theatres under increasingly under funded, under manned and under supported conditions. In my 15 years in the mob I never once heard or saw any serviceman/woman show anything but the utmost respect for veterans. I was (and am still) proud.
Rant over. I'm off down the pub.
NEO
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next time you see and old geezer wearing his medals at an airshow, ceremony, parade, or funeral...don't just walk on by. Stop, offer your hand, a salute (hand and/or verbal) and a real heart felt "thank you".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by tablet_eraser
decimating the Royal Navy's surface fleet,
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Originally Posted by SASless
How about this concept....
Next time you see and old geezer wearing his medals at an airshow, ceremony, parade, or funeral...don't just walk on by. Stop, offer your hand, a salute (hand and/or verbal) and a real heart felt "thank you".
Take a minute or two and ask him about "his" service and show some geniune interest in his well being.
Next time you see and old geezer wearing his medals at an airshow, ceremony, parade, or funeral...don't just walk on by. Stop, offer your hand, a salute (hand and/or verbal) and a real heart felt "thank you".
Take a minute or two and ask him about "his" service and show some geniune interest in his well being.
Ditto, son-in-law, ex-RAF regt field sqn.
They get talking, once he realised the other was a parachutist it was into aeroconicals, pack weights, jumps etc. Both almost missed their flights.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I was talking to a rear gunner, shot down after the Leipzig raid in '45. He and his crew, except the skipper, landed safely in friendly lines although they did not know that.
They all landed in a wood and, except for the tail gunner, met up and peered out of the wood to see a house with lights on just down the road. They crept up and peered through the window. Inside was a bunch of soldiers playing cards. They guessed they were Americans.
One of them opened the door that led straight in to the room "Anyone got a fag?" he asked (when fags were cigarettes). He reckoned it would be a good password.
The table went up, the cards went everywhere, some fell over backwards, others collided as they dived for their rifles.
There is lots more!
They all landed in a wood and, except for the tail gunner, met up and peered out of the wood to see a house with lights on just down the road. They crept up and peered through the window. Inside was a bunch of soldiers playing cards. They guessed they were Americans.
One of them opened the door that led straight in to the room "Anyone got a fag?" he asked (when fags were cigarettes). He reckoned it would be a good password.
The table went up, the cards went everywhere, some fell over backwards, others collided as they dived for their rifles.
There is lots more!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In a shed
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talking to the old geezers
Great idea SASless.
I spent a couple of days, on duty (not in uniform) at the VE/VJ-Day centre in St James' Park last summer.
I singled out the RAF veterans to talk to; fascinating stuff: one of the first members of the newly-formed RAF Regiment; a Spitfire pilot shot down on his birthday over Italy and crash landing in a ploughed field; loads of ex-WAAFs with shedloads of spirit and a million laughs; best of all: the old Bomber Command boys - true, unsung heroes.
One of these great old fellas said he had flown 13 missions over Berlin. "Adolf sent me a message after that; don't come over here again, mate!” Lovely stuff...and truly rewarding in these understandably cynical times.
I spent a couple of days, on duty (not in uniform) at the VE/VJ-Day centre in St James' Park last summer.
I singled out the RAF veterans to talk to; fascinating stuff: one of the first members of the newly-formed RAF Regiment; a Spitfire pilot shot down on his birthday over Italy and crash landing in a ploughed field; loads of ex-WAAFs with shedloads of spirit and a million laughs; best of all: the old Bomber Command boys - true, unsung heroes.
One of these great old fellas said he had flown 13 missions over Berlin. "Adolf sent me a message after that; don't come over here again, mate!” Lovely stuff...and truly rewarding in these understandably cynical times.
Ran into an old fellow quite by accident....fortunately only physical damage to the vehicles. He was wearing a rather gaudy Hawaiian shirt, which on the East Coast is a bit unusual. While waiting for the Gestapo to arrive, we struck up a conversation during which I mentioned his mode of attire. He told me that he had just returned from a Pearl Harbor veterans reunion. When he mentioned he had been a Marine aboard the USS Arizona....you can imagine the emotion that brought up knowing how few survived the sinking of that ship.
SAS
A great idea. I do it when I see folks in the airport wearing anything that singles them out as a vet.
Rich
I heard a similar story from passenger waiting for a flight. He had been a flier in the Pacific. He had been shot down, as was a Japanese flier. They exchanged gun fire after both were in the water. The Japanese fellow had actually put a hole in his raft. He fired till out of rounds, he suspects the other guy did too.
A great idea. I do it when I see folks in the airport wearing anything that singles them out as a vet.
Rich
I heard a similar story from passenger waiting for a flight. He had been a flier in the Pacific. He had been shot down, as was a Japanese flier. They exchanged gun fire after both were in the water. The Japanese fellow had actually put a hole in his raft. He fired till out of rounds, he suspects the other guy did too.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
What makes me sad, a few years after the war, we sprogs never asked, and our instructors never said, what they had done in the war.
Our Int O was shot down on the first raid after the dams raid. I checked the Bomber Command loss diaries and sure enough he was there. His story was that they were assured that their would be no flak in the Ruhr.
What he did not relate was how they were shot down or how he was captured and subsequently released.
Ditto all our Polish pilots, we never found out how they had come to join the RAF.
It is only in retirement that the vets are now talking, anxious that the story is not forgotten. I read almost all the books that were published in the 50s and many I remember intimately.
Our Int O was shot down on the first raid after the dams raid. I checked the Bomber Command loss diaries and sure enough he was there. His story was that they were assured that their would be no flak in the Ruhr.
What he did not relate was how they were shot down or how he was captured and subsequently released.
Ditto all our Polish pilots, we never found out how they had come to join the RAF.
It is only in retirement that the vets are now talking, anxious that the story is not forgotten. I read almost all the books that were published in the 50s and many I remember intimately.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: london
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IIRC it was a couple of decades ago when going through reselection at Biggin Hill that one Sunday night, returning to the Mess I happened upon a gentleman of mature stature who would tell a tale of flying in Burma after WWII but singularly failed to mention anything earlier and to my shame it was only after he left the bar that the steward pointed out that aforementioned gentleman had his picture on the wall and identified him as Wg Cdr Bob Stanford-Tuck. A more modest or engaging gentleman you would not meet. Do we really need an occasion for politicians to hijack to remember such gentlemen?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 423 Likes
on
223 Posts
They are just a little too late for my favourite uncle.
We had his funeral service yesterday. His medals, including his Burma Star, were on his coffin. He was 90 years old. He left the RAF from India. They were not allowed home for over 6 months after WW2 ended (an interesting part of the RAF's history). His transport home was a converted Mitchell bomber, which crashed in a field in France after suffering a double engine failure
RIP Sgt W. Shaw.
We had his funeral service yesterday. His medals, including his Burma Star, were on his coffin. He was 90 years old. He left the RAF from India. They were not allowed home for over 6 months after WW2 ended (an interesting part of the RAF's history). His transport home was a converted Mitchell bomber, which crashed in a field in France after suffering a double engine failure
RIP Sgt W. Shaw.
This government, show respect for the British Armed Forces? I don't think so! Call me cynical but I don't feel that the vast majority of the British public give a stuff either. Whilst serving in Belize I nipped up to the USA for a long weekend and routed through Houston (this was during Gulf War1). I was in civvies but carrying my RAF holdall and was waiting in the queue at immigration when I was approached by a security guard who asked, "Pardon me, Sir. Are you in the Armed Forces?" When I said yes he took my bag from me and said, "Please follow me, Sir." We promptly whizzed through immigration, passport control and customs ahead of everyone else. He thanked me and "my fellow British brothers in arms" for all we were doing in the Gulf (no matter that I was serving in the Gulf of Mexico) and wished me a pleasant stay in the USA. The public attitude "over there" to the Armed Forces is a million miles from that displayed here. I'm not asking for special treatment - maybe a little appreciation wouldn't go amiss now and again.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
51st State
Il Duce,
A point well made. The good ol' US of A do make a geat deal of their Vets, (some are even coming to terms with the Vietnam guys too!!) My only concern with this move by His Tonyness, is that this is just another nail in the coffin of "being British". Can't we come up with some other way of celbrating all that have committed themselves to the defense of this, once proud, nation?
Possibly, and I know this is a far fetched notion, we could have a National Day on, or around, 11/11 every year?
I don't know, Veterans Day, presidential style elections, Blair Force One, where do we stop. One, two, three "Oh say can you see, da dada da da da.............
A point well made. The good ol' US of A do make a geat deal of their Vets, (some are even coming to terms with the Vietnam guys too!!) My only concern with this move by His Tonyness, is that this is just another nail in the coffin of "being British". Can't we come up with some other way of celbrating all that have committed themselves to the defense of this, once proud, nation?
Possibly, and I know this is a far fetched notion, we could have a National Day on, or around, 11/11 every year?
I don't know, Veterans Day, presidential style elections, Blair Force One, where do we stop. One, two, three "Oh say can you see, da dada da da da.............
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Devon
Age: 70
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what would be a meaningful alternative? I dont care where the idea has "originated" from. We all know royalty, politicians and the media will hijack anything, but nonetheless, I support an initiative which a) honours those who richly deserve it and b)educates further generations