Puff the Magic Dragon
Innocents killed...by Terrorists, Insurrectionists, Saddam's Goons, or Coalition Forces?
When you levy blame for "innocents being killed" it appears all deaths are the fault of the Coalition Forces (ie...Bush/Blair).
If we take the 300,000 found in mass graves, add the innocent men, women, and children killed by IED's, Car bombs, Suicide Bombers, death squads, snipers, beheaders....and add that number to the 300,000 then I would suppose the "Bad" guys are worthy of your ire.
When a body shows up in the Baghdad morque....that does not indicate the body was an "innocent" person.
Any innocent death is a tragedy....no one disputes that. Just put the blame where it should lie...on those that intentionally seek out and target the innocent or by their tactics purposely put innocents into the line of fire so as to cause those deaths.
When you levy blame for "innocents being killed" it appears all deaths are the fault of the Coalition Forces (ie...Bush/Blair).
If we take the 300,000 found in mass graves, add the innocent men, women, and children killed by IED's, Car bombs, Suicide Bombers, death squads, snipers, beheaders....and add that number to the 300,000 then I would suppose the "Bad" guys are worthy of your ire.
When a body shows up in the Baghdad morque....that does not indicate the body was an "innocent" person.
Any innocent death is a tragedy....no one disputes that. Just put the blame where it should lie...on those that intentionally seek out and target the innocent or by their tactics purposely put innocents into the line of fire so as to cause those deaths.
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How come you can be portrayed as a bleeding heart liberal hippy idiot, at best, and a supporter of terrorism at worst in these forums when you suggest that high explosive is not the best way of conducting a "surgical" strike? I think the war in Iraq is ill judged to say the least. Does this mean I send Al Quaeda used tenners in a brown envelope each month? Don't be so sodding stupid! And anyone who uses the "oh, you're not supporting our brave boys then" argument is beneath my contempt - and there are plenty of you out there.
I think Mr-AEO's original comment is valid enough given the film that I saw. There are plenty of home movies on the net - often taken by whooping spams who have just destroyed an entire appartment block to get a single sniper. Even if no innocents are hurt in such incidents it ain't going to endear you to the locals now is it?
"All the gear and no idea". Never a truer word spoken.
I think Mr-AEO's original comment is valid enough given the film that I saw. There are plenty of home movies on the net - often taken by whooping spams who have just destroyed an entire appartment block to get a single sniper. Even if no innocents are hurt in such incidents it ain't going to endear you to the locals now is it?
"All the gear and no idea". Never a truer word spoken.
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If there is a university for 'insurgency theory' this thread will prove to them that their terrorism works since they are dividing opinion and stopiing us having a unified response. I wonder what threads the forums on Anticoalitionmilitia.com are running at the moment. There is no 'magic bullet' to combat the insurgency and if we all applied COIN theory then perhaps we would be further down the line but that requires the mailed fist in the velvet glove, not armchair theorists and people seeking quick wins. The insurgents aren't winning, and neither are we. Does anyone remember the 'will to win'?
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I know we are all supposed to be civilised folk, but I tend to believe the Romans were right in their approach (What did the Romans ever do for us etc etc.) If you accepted Roman rule, you lived in peace - more or less. However, if you rebelled and caused a war, a couple of legions would show up and kill every living thing . People, livestock, pets, the lot. Needless to say, tribes tended to learn preeeety quick that it was not a good move to upset Rome. Sky TV and CNN not withstanding, might be worth a go in Afghanistan don't yer think????
Trouble is I don't think we have enough blokes in the Army to make up a Legion these days.
Trouble is I don't think we have enough blokes in the Army to make up a Legion these days.
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Originally Posted by RayDarr
I know we are all supposed to be civilised folk, but I tend to believe the Romans were right in their approach (What did the Romans ever do for us etc etc.) If you accepted Roman rule, you lived in peace - more or less. However, if you rebelled and caused a war, a couple of legions would show up and kill every living thing . People, livestock, pets, the lot. Needless to say, tribes tended to learn preeeety quick that it was not a good move to upset Rome. Sky TV and CNN not withstanding, might be worth a go in Afghanistan don't yer think????
Trouble is I don't think we have enough blokes in the Army to make up a Legion these days.
Trouble is I don't think we have enough blokes in the Army to make up a Legion these days.
Ask my American neighbours. "Quite so, old chap, make it so".
Ask my neighbours if it would be OK if that happened here. "Hell, no".
Hmm....
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OK, perhaps the Roman solution is not workable today. How about we let people around the world live like they want to live and stop getting in their face? I have no objection at all about bringing our armed forces home from all around the world, and using them only to defend the UK. We can then let the people of Iraq slaughter each other for a couple of years, and once they have reduced their own country and civilisation back to the stone age, we can go back in and get their oil for free.
Same applies to Afghanistan, except they are already in the stone age, and they can keep their opium thanks very much. N Korea we can ignore, just cut off all aid and they will starve themselves to death in no time at all. If we do this, we also remove any reason for international terrorism, as we are not playing "internationally" any more.
Anybody think that might be a good idea?
Of course the USA tried "isolationalism between the wars, but were still sucked into WW2, so maybe this won't work either.
Oh what the hell, just nuke em till they glow!!
Same applies to Afghanistan, except they are already in the stone age, and they can keep their opium thanks very much. N Korea we can ignore, just cut off all aid and they will starve themselves to death in no time at all. If we do this, we also remove any reason for international terrorism, as we are not playing "internationally" any more.
Anybody think that might be a good idea?
Of course the USA tried "isolationalism between the wars, but were still sucked into WW2, so maybe this won't work either.
Oh what the hell, just nuke em till they glow!!
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That would be a little short sighted. It GUARANTEES that you fight wars on your own soil. If you can go and spoil the bad guys' whole afternoon on their plot, it saves wrecking one's own.
Additionally, like it or not, we (the West) are net importers of energy. Since the ragheads appear to control much of this, it may be something of an own goal. Unless of course we all drive Toyota Priuses. Oh, sorry, forgot, they are Japanese. So when the North Koreans attack Japan, and we do nothing about it, that would but a banana skin under that plan.
Falkland Islands are somewhat remote from these shores (even here in the US!). We could just withdraw.
Of course, on 3rd September 1939, we could have stayed at home and minded our own business, could we not?
Additionally, like it or not, we (the West) are net importers of energy. Since the ragheads appear to control much of this, it may be something of an own goal. Unless of course we all drive Toyota Priuses. Oh, sorry, forgot, they are Japanese. So when the North Koreans attack Japan, and we do nothing about it, that would but a banana skin under that plan.
Falkland Islands are somewhat remote from these shores (even here in the US!). We could just withdraw.
Of course, on 3rd September 1939, we could have stayed at home and minded our own business, could we not?
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Originally Posted by Roadster280
Of course, on 3rd September 1939, we could have stayed at home and minded our own business, could we not?
"There was nothing wrong with appeasement. All that World War Two achieved after six years was to leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship. That's what comes of not listening to the Foreign Office."
"It was a good idea to partition countries like India and Cyprus and Palestine and Ireland as a part of their independence. It keeps them busy fighting each other so we don't' have to have a policy about them."
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Pull out and let them all fight with each other is a great idea! when we go back in a few years there will be noone left and we can build a rather large butlins where bagdhad used to be! free holidays, cheap oil, are all a bonus! But we will get slated if we pull out and the country descends into civil war!
Ray Darr- nuke them till they glow!- amen
won't have to waste money disposing of trident then!
Ray Darr- nuke them till they glow!- amen
won't have to waste money disposing of trident then!
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Bismark (The Iron Chancellor not the ship) once said the Balkans were not worth the bones of a single Pommeranian Grenadier.
I sort of feel the same way about that, and Iraq, and Afghanistan. I can't say I'd be too bothered if N Korea did zap Japan. I buy German cars anyway. I s'pose a smoking hole where Japan once was might cause a problem for some of my electrical kit, but I'll manage.
Musn't upset the yanks however, although our Tony is rapidly turning us into the 51st State. I thought that on 3 Sep 39 the US did sit back and watch the fun. Then became rich by selling us all the stuff we needed to fight with. I guess they would still be selling us bombs or swapping our overseas possessions for tanks if the Japs hadnt bombed Pearl Harbour and brought them in.
Hey hum!
I sort of feel the same way about that, and Iraq, and Afghanistan. I can't say I'd be too bothered if N Korea did zap Japan. I buy German cars anyway. I s'pose a smoking hole where Japan once was might cause a problem for some of my electrical kit, but I'll manage.
Musn't upset the yanks however, although our Tony is rapidly turning us into the 51st State. I thought that on 3 Sep 39 the US did sit back and watch the fun. Then became rich by selling us all the stuff we needed to fight with. I guess they would still be selling us bombs or swapping our overseas possessions for tanks if the Japs hadnt bombed Pearl Harbour and brought them in.
Hey hum!
Traded overseas possessions for arms? Errrr...by that you mean you gave away someone elses territory to protect your homeland I presume.
Sat back and reaped riches? We could have remained truely neutral as international law required and really sat back....much like the Swedes and Swiss I suppose.
Tell me about the USS Reuben James....and how those guys sat back and watched....or the other Americans in the RAF flying in the BoB wearing crab blue.
I should think the financial gain we garnered might have been offset just a bit by the investment in things like the 8th Airforce and the 82 Army Divisions we sent to Europe along with significant naval units.
But then why let facts interfere with a good rant I suppose.
Sat back and reaped riches? We could have remained truely neutral as international law required and really sat back....much like the Swedes and Swiss I suppose.
Tell me about the USS Reuben James....and how those guys sat back and watched....or the other Americans in the RAF flying in the BoB wearing crab blue.
I should think the financial gain we garnered might have been offset just a bit by the investment in things like the 8th Airforce and the 82 Army Divisions we sent to Europe along with significant naval units.
But then why let facts interfere with a good rant I suppose.
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Wow, from the Spooky to the BoB
Back to the origional point of this post ( I think) anyone else have videos?
i know it isn't a Spooky, but it was posted on the site as one
click here
still awesome
Back to the origional point of this post ( I think) anyone else have videos?
i know it isn't a Spooky, but it was posted on the site as one
click here
still awesome
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Agreed....you have to remember that those were the actions of the Americans. An Englishman enters action with the firm conviction that his duty is to hurt his enemies and help his friends without looking for directions in the midst of the fight; and while he thus clears his mind of all subsidiary distractions, he rests in confidence on the certaintly that his comrades actuated by the same principles as himself, will be bound by the sacred and priceless law of mutual support. Accordingly, both he and all his fellows fix their minds on acting with zeal and judgement on the spur of the moment, and with the certainty that they will not be deserted.
Commodore H Nelson.
Commodore H Nelson.
