Raid on Chemical Bomb factory in London today?
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Raid on Chemical Bomb factory in London today?
News reports here in the USA are reporting the Police raid this morning in London uncovered a "Chemical Bomb" factory. Chilling news if true!
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See the link below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5040022.stm
Air exclusion zone should keep news helos away.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5040022.stm
Air exclusion zone should keep news helos away.
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
"Air exclusion zone should keep news helos away."
and that's a good thing, because.......?
and that's a good thing, because.......?
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Sorry Jacko, no offence meant. 
Didn't say it was a good or bad idea but thought i would mention it as it will probably limit coverage, particularly to our American friends (such as SASless) who are used to large amounts of helos covering even minor events( 50mph 'high' speed chases etc!).
Also it was the one gem of aero related business in an article that is otherwise not aircraft related, although worrying for all.
Didn't say it was a good or bad idea but thought i would mention it as it will probably limit coverage, particularly to our American friends (such as SASless) who are used to large amounts of helos covering even minor events( 50mph 'high' speed chases etc!).
Also it was the one gem of aero related business in an article that is otherwise not aircraft related, although worrying for all.
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Skunkerama
So thats what they meant when they said we had to invade Iraq. The word chemical actually meant anything organic or inorganic. And here was me thinking it (when applied to a weapon) meant something really nasty that we ought to put a stop to. So instead of saying they had 'chemical weapons', they should have just said they had 'weapons' (which isthe way it turned out anyway).
So thats what they meant when they said we had to invade Iraq. The word chemical actually meant anything organic or inorganic. And here was me thinking it (when applied to a weapon) meant something really nasty that we ought to put a stop to. So instead of saying they had 'chemical weapons', they should have just said they had 'weapons' (which isthe way it turned out anyway).
Rakshasa
Who doesn't want free pix of what, getting back to whom?
If there is a legitimate reason for imposing an air exclusion zone, fair enough, of course, but there does need to be some justification.
I'm not up in arms about it, I just wondered if it's akin to the modern police approach in other areas - which seems to be to high handedly and arrogantly take over an area, inconveniencing the public, without explanation, and often without real need, and all for their operational convenience and/or to avoid oversight.
I remember when a road accident would be coned off (usually closing one or at most two lanes of a three lane motorway) and then quickly measured and photographed before being cleared, and the road re-opened asap. The system worked well, and I know of no incident where re-opening a road quickly seriously prejudiced any subsequent prosecution. And if it had done, then too bad, since keeping traffic moving is probably more important. Now the bug.gers seem inclined to completely close roads at the drop of a hat, and to keep them closed for extended periods, while they do much the same work as before, much more slowly, in case it's a crime scene.
Our whole system of law enforcement relies on policing by consent, and the more the Police are perceived as operating with scant regard to the public, and the more they inconvenience us, the more difficult it will become to gain that consent.
Who doesn't want free pix of what, getting back to whom?
If there is a legitimate reason for imposing an air exclusion zone, fair enough, of course, but there does need to be some justification.
I'm not up in arms about it, I just wondered if it's akin to the modern police approach in other areas - which seems to be to high handedly and arrogantly take over an area, inconveniencing the public, without explanation, and often without real need, and all for their operational convenience and/or to avoid oversight.
I remember when a road accident would be coned off (usually closing one or at most two lanes of a three lane motorway) and then quickly measured and photographed before being cleared, and the road re-opened asap. The system worked well, and I know of no incident where re-opening a road quickly seriously prejudiced any subsequent prosecution. And if it had done, then too bad, since keeping traffic moving is probably more important. Now the bug.gers seem inclined to completely close roads at the drop of a hat, and to keep them closed for extended periods, while they do much the same work as before, much more slowly, in case it's a crime scene.
Our whole system of law enforcement relies on policing by consent, and the more the Police are perceived as operating with scant regard to the public, and the more they inconvenience us, the more difficult it will become to gain that consent.
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Jacko
I believe it's SOP to have an avoid around suspect terrorist hideouts for the very same reason they have a cordon on the ground - it's not outside the realms of possibility that something they have may be unstable or even rigged.
Either way I don't personally see the public interest in showing looped aerial footage of someone's shed for TV's very own 'experts' to provide wildly speculative commentary on.
I believe it's SOP to have an avoid around suspect terrorist hideouts for the very same reason they have a cordon on the ground - it's not outside the realms of possibility that something they have may be unstable or even rigged.
Either way I don't personally see the public interest in showing looped aerial footage of someone's shed for TV's very own 'experts' to provide wildly speculative commentary on.
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Jackonicko
An AEZ is requested for any incident where a bomb is suspected. Be that terrorist, or WW2 device.
The reason being somewhat obvious...big bang, bits go up. Unless you know exactly what size said supected bomb is, your guess as to how high is as good as anyone elses.
There is an element of keeping the press out of the way as well, especially if there is a police air support unit involved. Do they really want to be dodging the press while trying to do a somewhat more important job? No.
As to your opinions of accident scenes, it's like any other crime scene(yes, thats right, crime scene) and the time it's cordoned off, depends on many things, ranging from how long it takes the specialists to get to the scene, to how complex the investigation is.
Yes, Policing is based on consent, but that has to be balanced against protection of life and property, whihch is the primary object of Police in the UK.
Your recollections may have been based on simple accidents, and nothing complicated.
An AEZ is requested for any incident where a bomb is suspected. Be that terrorist, or WW2 device.
The reason being somewhat obvious...big bang, bits go up. Unless you know exactly what size said supected bomb is, your guess as to how high is as good as anyone elses.
There is an element of keeping the press out of the way as well, especially if there is a police air support unit involved. Do they really want to be dodging the press while trying to do a somewhat more important job? No.
As to your opinions of accident scenes, it's like any other crime scene(yes, thats right, crime scene) and the time it's cordoned off, depends on many things, ranging from how long it takes the specialists to get to the scene, to how complex the investigation is.
Yes, Policing is based on consent, but that has to be balanced against protection of life and property, whihch is the primary object of Police in the UK.
Your recollections may have been based on simple accidents, and nothing complicated.
All good reasons, bjcc, with the exception of the 'keeping the press out of the way' of the ASU - normal ATC could surely handle that without a complete AEZ for four days?
As to the increasing tendency of the Police to seal off areas in which they are working, my point isn't really to question why they do it, but why they do it so much more today than they did a few years ago, and why 'preserving the crime scene' (at an RTA, for goodness sake) now routinely outweighs the need to keep traffic moving. I'm particularly intrigued as to why a 'whole carriageway closure' is now routine even when an accident is confined to (say) the hard shoulder.
If the answer is that we now tend to rubber-neck more, making things more dangerous, then I'm all for road closures, but I suspect that it's a high handed and rather arrogant, narrowly focused self interest on the part of the police, in which case it irks me.
As to the increasing tendency of the Police to seal off areas in which they are working, my point isn't really to question why they do it, but why they do it so much more today than they did a few years ago, and why 'preserving the crime scene' (at an RTA, for goodness sake) now routinely outweighs the need to keep traffic moving. I'm particularly intrigued as to why a 'whole carriageway closure' is now routine even when an accident is confined to (say) the hard shoulder.
If the answer is that we now tend to rubber-neck more, making things more dangerous, then I'm all for road closures, but I suspect that it's a high handed and rather arrogant, narrowly focused self interest on the part of the police, in which case it irks me.
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Jackonicko
I don't know that we rubber neck any more...it's a hobby as old as car crashes. It didn't really matter that much when 2 cars an hour pass the scene, but have you seen the jams that develop these days on a motorway when someone has a minor dink?
I don't know that police do the things you mention any more than they used too. I certainly remember in '78 being on a cordon for a traffic accident for most of a night duty, it wasn't a fatal, just serious.
As for the AEZ, excluding press for 4 days may be excessive, but until the scene is cleared, then they wont drop it. These days, in terrorist investigations it takes a very long time to clear and then search a scene, apart from very sensible reasons of not wanting to get blown to kindgdom come, everything is carefully searched to prevent some of the mistakes of the past.
Erksome it may be for the aviation industry, but if it gets suspected terrorists off the streets, then it gets my vote.
I don't know that we rubber neck any more...it's a hobby as old as car crashes. It didn't really matter that much when 2 cars an hour pass the scene, but have you seen the jams that develop these days on a motorway when someone has a minor dink?
I don't know that police do the things you mention any more than they used too. I certainly remember in '78 being on a cordon for a traffic accident for most of a night duty, it wasn't a fatal, just serious.
As for the AEZ, excluding press for 4 days may be excessive, but until the scene is cleared, then they wont drop it. These days, in terrorist investigations it takes a very long time to clear and then search a scene, apart from very sensible reasons of not wanting to get blown to kindgdom come, everything is carefully searched to prevent some of the mistakes of the past.
Erksome it may be for the aviation industry, but if it gets suspected terrorists off the streets, then it gets my vote.
"i would mention it as it will probably limit coverage, particularly to our American friends (such as SASless) who are used to large amounts of helos covering even minor events"
Your comments are a bit non sequitor given the exclusion zone is in the UK.
Your comments are a bit non sequitor given the exclusion zone is in the UK.
Thread Starter
From a British news source....
As if attending football games wasn't dangerous enough already!
A DESPERATE search is under way for a “chemical vest” that a British suicide bomber was ready to deploy in a terror attack on London.
Police fear that the strike, using a home-made chemical device, was imminent after an informant told MI5 that he had seen the lethal garment at the home of two young men.
Police fear that the strike, using a home-made chemical device, was imminent after an informant told MI5 that he had seen the lethal garment at the home of two young men.