Tail Warning Radars

[Milt]

P-51 Mustangs I flew in the Korean war had tail warning antennae mounted each side of the fin. Never did see the rest of the system and would like to know whether any complete systems were ever installed and did they work ?If so how effectively?

Later did some tail warning trials on the "Orange Putter" system on a Valiant. A little 3 inch scope on the instrument coaming would show a blip which grew in size as the range reduced and then the blip would sprout wings when the incoming was supposed to be close to a firing solution with guns.

Did "Orange Putter" reach the RAF Squadrons?

[ORAC]

P-51 was fitted with the AN/APS-13

[Pontius Navigator]

Milt, yes indeed. Never saw the inside but I believe it was fitted to Mk 1 Vs and the Canberra. As it seems, from your description, to have been for detection of a gun armed fighter it was already obsolete by the early 60s when the Anab beam rider came along.

Against guns it would have had limited success. Saw a cine film from CFE that showed a Hunter tracking a Valiant. The piper was centred on the jet pipes with the ring circling them. As he closed in the piper centred on the back of the cockpit and stayed there. The Valiant conducted a series of 'gentle' weaves at low level.

I don't know what the purpose was. Maybe to allow the AEO to track the compliant fighter. Certainly the Hunter jocks showed it to prove we were dead meat. I have no idea just what the Valiant would have been capable of in manouevre terms.

Mk 1a's and Mk 2 Vs all had Red Steer, a much larger antena housed in the large dome at the back.

[Zoom]

The AN/APS-13 nomenclature indicates that this was a US system. Was that the case, and did the US have more luck with it operationally?

[ORAC]

Microwave Radar at War: "The US also built a series of tail-warning radars, most notably the "AN/APS-13" for fighters. This was a low-power pulse radar set, operating at 67 cm / 450 MHz, that flashed a red light and rang a bell when an enemy aircraft was approaching from the rear. Similar sets, the "AN/APS-16" and "AN/APS-17", were built for bombers."

[mutleyfour]

Originally Posted by Milt

P-51 Mustangs I flew in the Korean war had tail warning antennae mounted each side of the fin. Never did see the rest of the system and would like to know whether any complete systems were ever installed and did they work ?If so how effectively?
Later did some tail warning trials on the "Orange Putter" system on a Valiant. A little 3 inch scope on the instrument coaming would show a blip which grew in size as the range reduced and then the blip would sprout wings when the incoming was supposed to be close to a firing solution with guns.
Did "Orange Putter" reach the RAF Squadrons?

MILT, forget the Tail warner and tell us more about flying the Mustang, I for one am keenly interested.

[Dan Winterland]

A tail warning radar was fitted to WW2 British bombers. Called 'Monica', it's use was stopped when it was realised that the Luftwaffe had developed a receiver which would home in on Monica transmissions.

B52H's tail guns were radar steered as were several Soviet rear gun systems.

[Maple 01]

I had to faf about with a bit of kit called 'Dialect' which we were told was a RWR that had had been stripped out of the Vulcan - it's sitting in the Air defence Museum at Neatishead if anyone wants a look - used to get jammed by sodium lights!

[forget]

Vulcan Red Steer Mk II Indicator below, it's the orange bit. I seem to remember from de-briefs with Aussie Mirage crews, on Darwin exercises, it worked very well. The Red Steer would track the incoming fighter and, at the appropriate time, the X Band jammer, having locked to the AI frequency, would zap the fighter radar. 'Jeeeez, Whole bloody screen just went orange' was the result.



Proper pickie at Andy Leitch's excellent Vulcan web -

http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/andy_leitch_vol6/aeo2.htm

[Lou Scannon]

One of the old boys in the Aircrew Association told me about "Village Inn", a radar controlled rear gun system that replaced the rear gunner in some Lancasters back in 1944.

To start with it slaughtered the German night fighters but then they worked out why other Lancs that came up from behind didn't get fired on. Looking through the rather too plentiful piles of Lanc wrecks they found that they were fitted with Infra-red lights in the nose that flashed coded signals to the receivers identifying them as friendly.

The Germans kitted out their night fighters in a similar fashion and solved the problem (for them at any rate).

[pmills575]

A view from the rear

Red Steer had a slightly perverse way of indicating the aircraft that it detected. It showed the displayed returns from the fighter aircrafts perspective! Got that question wrong on a trade test, although I'd never worked on it.