Exchange tours?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Exchange tours?
With the many exhange tours between the US and Britain over the years, have there been UK aircraft types where US aircrew have not been allowed to serve?
Same for the opposite exchanges: have there been US aircraft types where RAF/FAA aviators have not been allowed to participate?
Same for the opposite exchanges: have there been US aircraft types where RAF/FAA aviators have not been allowed to participate?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
spocla, thank you for that, I wondered
Me, I don't have that problem
There were no USAF exchange personnel on the V-force sqns in the late 60s to early 70s. I can't answer outside that. The reason was that Plan B, our independent nuclear ops plan was Eyes Only. There were USAF staff officers at 1 Gp and Bomber/Strike Command but they were not allowed in the vaults and usually confined to the exercise desk rather than the ops desk.
The bomber school, OTOH, had a nav rad, probaby off B47s. George Chabot (shab bow) taught us servos and M-type trasmitters, feedback etc and I flew with him at least once in the Hastings. Intensely professional . . . but then we were Brits.
I don't recall a USAF officer on 230 OCU (Vulcan) groundschool.
Me, I don't have that problem
There were no USAF exchange personnel on the V-force sqns in the late 60s to early 70s. I can't answer outside that. The reason was that Plan B, our independent nuclear ops plan was Eyes Only. There were USAF staff officers at 1 Gp and Bomber/Strike Command but they were not allowed in the vaults and usually confined to the exercise desk rather than the ops desk.
The bomber school, OTOH, had a nav rad, probaby off B47s. George Chabot (shab bow) taught us servos and M-type trasmitters, feedback etc and I flew with him at least once in the Hastings. Intensely professional . . . but then we were Brits.
I don't recall a USAF officer on 230 OCU (Vulcan) groundschool.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duty-wise, I wasn't allowed to sit USAF QRA or fly into one particular island base, presumably in case I created an international incident. Also I wasn't allowed to know what that black box was, there just aft of the radio, the one with the label on it that said '.............................' and which I used to instruct new aircrew on.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Zoom,
Sorry, to what a/c are you referring?
As a further explanation, in writing several articles on various a/c, both British and American, I've interviewed gents who flew for the other side (US in Bucc, Lightning, Jaguar, SHAR on the eastern side of the Atlantic; UK in F-4, C-130 and KC-135 on my side of the water). As was mentioned I also know of RAF types who flew our U-2 (including carrier qualification!), and F-117.
From what PN wrote, seems as if the ones that carried the biggest 'bangs' were limited to natives only. I would assume the same for our B-47/52, etc, but don't know that. Just curious about some of the many other types that have gone aloft since WWII.
Sorry, to what a/c are you referring?
As a further explanation, in writing several articles on various a/c, both British and American, I've interviewed gents who flew for the other side (US in Bucc, Lightning, Jaguar, SHAR on the eastern side of the Atlantic; UK in F-4, C-130 and KC-135 on my side of the water). As was mentioned I also know of RAF types who flew our U-2 (including carrier qualification!), and F-117.
From what PN wrote, seems as if the ones that carried the biggest 'bangs' were limited to natives only. I would assume the same for our B-47/52, etc, but don't know that. Just curious about some of the many other types that have gone aloft since WWII.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
brickhistory
The F-4, and I'll PM you with the location. As a result of not being totally involved I felt that I was not always pulling my weight, so I tried to make up for it by volunteering for extra exercise deployments (nowhere sunny, unfortunately), weekend FCF and SOF duties (ie air tests and Duty Pilot), etc. Despite that, it was a bl**dy good tour.
The F-4, and I'll PM you with the location. As a result of not being totally involved I felt that I was not always pulling my weight, so I tried to make up for it by volunteering for extra exercise deployments (nowhere sunny, unfortunately), weekend FCF and SOF duties (ie air tests and Duty Pilot), etc. Despite that, it was a bl**dy good tour.
Last edited by Zoom; 22nd May 2006 at 09:14.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Real operations as well, allegedly......
Slightly off the topic, but is an interesting item--and this is a rumour network-- so, here goes:-
It is alleged that
there was a Sqdn.Ldr. B*********s at Seletar in 1968, who went mildly native and spent all his leave up country, going further north each time. In northern Thailand, he chanced upon a USAF Major based at RTAF Udorn who he had known when both were based at Wattisham and Lakenheath respectively.
Many beers flowed, bravado took hold, and they cooked up a scheme for the RAF man to fly an operational mission (Vietnam, of course). This happened, and (it is said) the guy did at least one mission in the back of an F-4, over Laos.
This story was quite common currency in Singapore at the time, and afterwards, and the RAF man was said to be almost the only serving RAF aircrew who had been chased by a SAM-3 for real.
It is alleged that
there was a Sqdn.Ldr. B*********s at Seletar in 1968, who went mildly native and spent all his leave up country, going further north each time. In northern Thailand, he chanced upon a USAF Major based at RTAF Udorn who he had known when both were based at Wattisham and Lakenheath respectively. Many beers flowed, bravado took hold, and they cooked up a scheme for the RAF man to fly an operational mission (Vietnam, of course). This happened, and (it is said) the guy did at least one mission in the back of an F-4, over Laos.
This story was quite common currency in Singapore at the time, and afterwards, and the RAF man was said to be almost the only serving RAF aircrew who had been chased by a SAM-3 for real.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia's Fine City
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was told a similar story (from the man himself) who was an RAAF F-86 chap
at the same time.
He's still around, superb chap and a real gent - still flying slightly southwest of Kingsford Smith. Taught me a lot about flying upside down.
at the same time.
He's still around, superb chap and a real gent - still flying slightly southwest of Kingsford Smith. Taught me a lot about flying upside down.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Art Field
Not aircraft types but the USAF exchange pilot on Victor Tankers was not allowed on Ascension Island during Op Corporate, IIRC.
Gentleman Aviator
And more parochially, when I was first on 72 Sqn with the mighty Wessex in the early 70s, our USAF exchange pilot was not allowed to go to Northern Ireland - even on aircraft changeovers...
... funnily enough he was the last incumbent and the post was moved to Ternhill/Shawbury ....
... funnily enough he was the last incumbent and the post was moved to Ternhill/Shawbury ....
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brick,
Hi again. As one of your Bucc sources, I can confirm that the USAF/USN guys over here were only allowed to serve on the UK-based squadrons, however, they were excluded from all aspects nuke for the same reasons as pointed out by PN. Also, when the Buccs were (almost) deployed in 1974 in response to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, the USAF exchange pilot, that I was then crewed with, and the USN navigator on the squadron were split from their RAF crews and left behind to look after the wives (nice job!). As it happened we never went. Exchange aircrew were not allowed
on the Bucc squadrons based in Germany because of those sqns' assignment to SACEUR and all that that entailed (get my drift).
FW
Hi again. As one of your Bucc sources, I can confirm that the USAF/USN guys over here were only allowed to serve on the UK-based squadrons, however, they were excluded from all aspects nuke for the same reasons as pointed out by PN. Also, when the Buccs were (almost) deployed in 1974 in response to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, the USAF exchange pilot, that I was then crewed with, and the USN navigator on the squadron were split from their RAF crews and left behind to look after the wives (nice job!). As it happened we never went. Exchange aircrew were not allowed
on the Bucc squadrons based in Germany because of those sqns' assignment to SACEUR and all that that entailed (get my drift).FW
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A lot closer to the sea
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lazer-Hound
The USAF exchange guys were probably not allowed during Corporate due to the fact that the USA was technically supporting the Junta in Argentina with kit (A-4, C-130 etc) to help their fight against their distinctly left leaning South American counterparts. Hence the supply of the latest Sidewinder for the SHARS being kept quiet. No official support of the UK by the USA who were also trying to broker a peace deal IIRC.
I guess the USA was a bit worried we might use the Vulcan properly on Buenos Aires and take out an ally in the fight against communism in South America.
I guess the USA was a bit worried we might use the Vulcan properly on Buenos Aires and take out an ally in the fight against communism in South America.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the late 70s 230 OCU had a USAF Major, ex B52s, on exchange; quite a character too. I recall one Friday evening when he had left some apparently important artefact in the bar after Happy Hour and was sent back by wifey close to chucking out time. He appeared in the Scruffs in his jim jams,dressing gown, cowboy boots and steson with an enormous stogie and proceeded to have another couple of beers "for the road".
Join Date: May 2006
Location: uk
Age: 37
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Art Field
Not aircraft types but the USAF exchange pilot on Victor Tankers was not allowed on Ascension Island during Op Corporate, IIRC.