FSTA Update

[Art Field]

Quote from Saintsman on A400 thread:"The first two FSTA aircraft are still on course to be converted at the beginning of 2008, with the first one due in service April 2010.

The contractual negotiations are taking their time because its not just about providing a fleet of aircraft. Its a complete package supplying aircraft, aircrew, groundcrew and all the support that goes with it for twenty odd years.

There are also severe penalties if the aircraft are not available. In this case the blame has to be correctly apportioned to the individual companies within the AirTanker consortium. This is one of the reasons the contractual negotiations are taking their time. You have to get these things right.

Leasing the aircraft to civil operators helps subsidise the cost although IMO I think that there will be so much demand from the MOD that they will never be leased out."

Whilst it is great to hear news of some possible progress, all these contractual problems were envisaged in the initial request for the tender so long ago. As far as blame for non availability is concerned, surely not MOD's problem. The contract will be with Air Tanker, not the individual members of the consortium. Certainly, in the light of previous MOD contract outcomes, things should be well right before commitment but lets get on with it. If the rumours of a drop in the total number of aircraft from around 22 to around 12 are true then the chances of spare capacity will be very small.

[South Bound]

Mmmmmm, think you might find that the numbers reduced are the ones available to the front line, while the delta will be passed (un-mod'd) to the contractor to generate 3PR. Of course, we will be able to get the others back and mod them up in time for any eventuality.....honest.

[RonO]

Surely grounds for concern when the contract requires more man hours to create than the kit

[TheInquisitor]

Its a complete package supplying aircraft, aircrew, groundcrew and all the support that goes with it for twenty odd years.

Err...Air Tanker are supplying the Aircrew?

So we're not going to fly it then?

[L J R]

I heard that you are all going to PVR in protest at JPA, Capped Actuals etc, and that there will be a surplus of AAR types around the bazzars to fill the cockpits.

[LFFC]

Err...Air Tanker are supplying the Aircrew?

So we're not going to fly it then?

I'm pretty sure that the RAF will provide the crews to fly the aircraft that will always be on the military register. AirTanker will provide civilian crews to fly the few aircraft that are in civilian colours. When those aircraft are swapped back to the military register, the civilian crews will come with them and fly them as Reservists.

[The Gorilla]

Who the hell would be mad enough to sign up as a reservist under those conditions?

[TheInquisitor]

Depends on what they're paying....

[BEagle]

The daft PFI concept does indeed include hiring mercenaries....

Except that the civil serpents prefer to call them 'sponsored reservists'.

[propulike]

This really is a ludicrous PFI. Have the poiticians forgotten that you can't make a profit out of Defence? It involves keeping some assets sitting around doing nothing in peace time and training personnel continuously so they are available when you need them.

Also, we can't have mil pilots flying civil aircraft on revenue tasks because -
Oh yes. We'd have to give the pilots an ATPL as part of the OCU. Then we wouldn't have any pilots at all

[LFFC]

This really is a ludicrous PFI. Have the poiticians forgotten that you can't make a profit out of Defence? It involves keeping some assets sitting around doing nothing in peace time and training personnel continuously so they are available when you need them.

First of all, lots of people make a profit out of defence - especially BAES and a few other defence companies...

Actually, of all the military PFIs that I've been told about, FSTA does seem to make some sense. As you said above, the Armed Forces are all about preparation during peacetime, so in theory you won't need to use a proportion of your military kit during peacetime. Unfortunately, most military kit can't be put to civilian use - but an aircraft like an A330 can be (just so long as it doesn't have any of the military toys fitted and is properly registered).

Also, we can't have mil pilots flying civil aircraft on revenue tasks because -

From what I understand, it will only be civilian pilots that fly civilian owned and civilian registered FSTA on revenue tasks.

Oh yes. We'd have to give the pilots an ATPL as part of the OCU. Then we wouldn't have any pilots at all

From what I hear, you have that problem in the ME world already!!

[exvicar]

I would gladly do a towline or so a month. Not too sure about SDO though!