MoD cost cuts 'will put troops in peril'

[Sideshow Bob]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...C-new_15052006.

I can understand using kit that is in storage, but 10 million each to refurbish, for a cab that is well past it’s best. Why not scrap the PFI’s that are only making old men rich (FSTA 14 aircraft 21 billion ect) and buy some decent kit to keep people alive rather than putting lives at risk by penny pinching on kit that is needed.

[Pontius Navigator]

Now there is a blast from the past:

<<But his outburst drew a furious riposte from Air Commodore Eric Wright CBE DFC DFM, who flew Hurricanes with 605 Squadron in the Battle of Britain. "If we didn't have the RAF in the 1940s we would all be saying 'Heil Hitler' now," he said.>>

Only 86, amazing. He was Mr Pastry, OC Coningsby Wing and later moved the entire wing to Cottesmore. Now that was like an expeditionary air wing. The whole wing was even slatted to deploy to the Far East in one exercise.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator

Now there is a blast from the past:
<<But his outburst drew a furious riposte from Air Commodore Eric Wright CBE DFC DFM, who flew Hurricanes with 605 Squadron in the Battle of Britain. "If we didn't have the RAF in the 1940s we would all be saying 'Heil Hitler' now," he said.>>
Only 86, amazing. He was Mr Pastry, OC Coningsby Wing and later moved the entire wing to Cottesmore. Now that was like an expeditionary air wing. The whole wing was even slatted to deploy to the Far East in one exercise.

I don't see any mention of an Air Commodore Eric Wright anywhere in the Telegraph article.

[Not_a_boffin]

Direct result of the shenanigans in putting off FASH, then SABR and now FRC. It is ludicrous that the most overworked helo force we have is being forced into worn out HAS6s. Typical of SMART procurement - we can't make a decision so lets put it off until production lines have gone cold and we can be charged startup costs.

Absolute madness - you have to feel sorry for the lads & lasses in JHC.

[Green Flash]

Question.
What have we got in the UK that can go down the Gulf, whose job can be done in UK by the slowKing?

[Pontius Navigator]

Grunt, Mrs PN had half-inched the paper and I had to make do with the electronic version. I pulled the quote directly from the link at th etop of the page.

Just goes to show, if you read one version of the paper it will differ from the same issue printed elsewhere or earlier in the day.

[Baskitt Kase]

I liked this quote from the electronic edition

The defence budget has fallen from £34.6 billion in 1999-2000 to £31 billion in 2004-05 in real terms, putting pressure on the armed forces at a time when senior officers are issuing warnings about overstretch.

Although, I'm certain that pr00ne will be along shortly to show that as the sustained investment that we keep being told about...

[Compressorstall]

The issue is whether the UK wants to be able to play the game 'Air Manoeuvre'. The SH Force and CHF are vital elements, but the money to replace the aircraft is burned up in sustaining existing ops and paying for the UORs that represent equipment that a lot of the types should have had already. The HAS6s might have been good value if we were still up to our eyes in NI, but what we really need now is new helicopters with the ability to lift lots even in hot and high. Anyone who considers the SK for Afghanistan doesn't have an atlas or know the effects of hot and high.

[BEagle]

Don't confuse them with facts!

Are there any Whirlwinds in storage?

[The Helpful Stacker]

They've got a spare Wessex in 60(R) Sqn's hangar, perhaps we could send that to the Gulf.

Proper helicopters those, with built-in RTR refueller heater next to the front refuel point.

[The Gorilla]

I can quote Pr00ne now:
"Don't believe everything you read in the papers"

[monkeybumhead]

There's a couple of sea kings, a gazelle and possibly a wessex at the shropshire training place formerly known as RAF Cosford. Perhaps they could be nurtured back into service.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by monkeybumhead

There's a couple of sea kings, a gazelle and possibly a wessex at the shropshire training place formerly known as RAF Cosford. Perhaps they could be nurtured back into service.

Compulsory purchase on the International Helicopter Museum?

Just around the corner from Wastelands but a lot cheaper and available now.

[[email protected]]

The RAF has been crying out for more helicopters for years since every conflict needs loads of them to transport troops and supplies. What do we get instead - bloody useless fighters to keep the top brass happy and BAE in business.

[NURSE]

why not order another squadron or 2 of merlin they appear to work well in the gulf. I'm sure 32Sqns A109's could be found a role oh yea that would leave President Blair with out a helecopter

[Compressorstall]

Ahh Crab - you forget that we are a fast jet Air Force. Lots of money has been spent convincing people who like to be convinced by very convincing consultants who can produce some very convincing graphs that convince them that we probably have too many SH because we aren't using them properly, or in a convincing manner. Having listened to these highly paid convincing consultants, they are great until they highlight the fact that they haven't a clue what we are really doing. No-one has told me to project combat power in the most economical way possible - I always thought we had to convince the enemy that they were going to lose, not spend our time convincing ourselves that because the politicians would like us to do the 'war thing' more cheaply that we should continually do it on a shoestring. All the consultants we have paid for would probably buy loads more Chinooks or Merlins, or a button for the Typhoon.

This rant has been fuelled by top quality wine on special offer from Tescos.

[WhiteOvies]

Last time I was down at HMS Sultan (Gosport) there was a hangar full of Jungly Wessex's in fairly good nick. Used for training maintainers on but all looked recoverable. This was about 4/5 years ago though.

[Rapscallion]

It seems you have the public on side, sideshow! From letters page of yesterday's Torygraph:

Sir - Perhaps if the Ministry of Defence pen-pushers were prised out of their £1,000 swivel chairs and made to do some combat missions, the quality of the equipment they offer our Armed Forces might improve, as no doubt would the delivery times (News, May 15).
Alan Marco, Watford, Herts

[RileyDove]

I remember years ago a company in the West Country wishing to build a machine called the Black Hawk! We could have had shed loads of those by now sitting in storage waiting for Tony's latest exploit!

[Lee Jung]

No names or locations, but yesterday the most senior of soldiers was meeting a reception line of aircrew:
" So Flt Lt, what do you fly? "
"I'm with the Merlin Flight out here Sir"
"Ah good...(points to the mighty king).. Not that piece of Junk then. So Lt what do you do out here?"
"I fly that piece of Junk Sir".
General politely shoved down rest of receiving line before 9 mils drawn
This happened yesterday and has severely upset the boys. The plan for the Sea King will see it upgraded to Puma speed, payload increased by 25% with much improved H&H performance. Let's face it fellas - we have to make the best of what w've got. If we could can 'Future Lynx, which we could by giving the RN a missile for Merlin and plonking the ones we have on the back of ships, and 212 for the army (nothing more capable is needed) then the badly overstreched Sea Kings and the moderately tasked (on 1st tuesday of the month) Pumas could be replaced by something decent.
This isn't going to happen because of Wastelands and the narrow minded attitude of Daavn and the FF/DD mafia.
Rant over - why do we need 220 cold war eurofighters btw? Prestige?