Pilot trapped for 5h in cockpit of USAF's new $135m F-22A Raptor after canopy jams

[ORAC]

Why is it called the F/A 22?

Errr, its not. That was flown as a kite for a while to protect the numbers, then rapidly dropped about 6 months ago, its now firmly just the F-22 and all budget proposals for AG development have been dropped. Probably because they threaten the new idea of a new bomber for about 2018 instead of 2038.

So it is definitely just an AD aircraft....till the next change.

[ORAC]

Yeah, but be fair, this was about the need for an internal gun instead of the add on guns such as used on the early F-4s. Know I know the SUU-23 etc wobbled about about, but the Harrier and F-25 have far more stable mounts, and give the option of dropping it and uploading something else instead.

[Ignition Override]

ORAC: those were good reminders of the insane 'rules of engagement' in Southeast Asia, a few of which consisted of very clearly defined approach routes to some critical target areas could have been charted as STARs (standard...routes), as with major airports.

A F-105 "Thud" pilot was kicked out of the US Air Force after he identified a Soviet civilian merchant ship in or near Haiphong harbor: the type which carried SAM-2 missiles. He blasted the ship, but this was off-limits, due to the arrogant coneheads at the White House, and their brown-nosed 'yes!' men in the Pentagon.

[Gainesy]

Just finished reading a book* by an F-105 pilot which mentions that incident (author was room mate of the pairs lead involved). Said Soviet ship, the Turkmenistan had opened fire with 20mm AAA on the pair of Thuds, who returned the compliment. The two pilots and their CO, Col Jack Broughton, were court martialed, the CO for destroying the gun camera film before the blunties got their hands on it.

*100 Missions North, Brig Gen Ken Bell, USAF(Ret)
ISBN1-57488-639-8

[ORAC]

Ahhh, Jack Broughton. I recommend you read his books, "Thud Ridge" and "Going Downtown".

[ARINC]

Originally Posted by ORAC

Remind me, did the Sea Harrier have a gun in the Falklands War? The AIM-9L did more than adequately I believe. Just how many Israeli kills were gun kills, and how many GW kills were gun kills? It can be argued that the need for a gun in Vietnam was more a result of the ROE which didn´t allow the enemy airfields to be attacked or BVR to used effectively combined with the poor performance of early AAM, particularly the appalling HMI of the AAM-4 Falcon.
Not saying a gun isn´t useful, just that using Vietnam is a justification lays you open to having the rug pulled from under you.

No......

But the GR3 did and it used them, 30mm Aden, makes an awful mess of the underside !

Heard a nice quote from I think Sqn Ldr Iveson at an RAeS lecture who when asked by FAC if he had any ordnance left, he said he still had guns. He could feel the heat of his wingmans gaze on the back of his neck, as they turned back into Stanley. Not an altogether popular suggestion he concluded !

As it turned out he got shot down and evaded capture shortly afterwards..

[the_flying_cop]

much merriment and a big hearty chortle

quote

"From now on, fire sections have been ordered to place a "duty chav" on standby with a wire coathanger and a jimmy bar for such eventualities. They can be drawn from stn MT Sections or Police Flts"

i just love it.

[Washington_Irving]

Originally Posted by SASless

Why is it called the F/A 22?
Seems it can do the mission of the F-117 along with the Air to Air deal too.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...22-weapons.htm

It picked up an "A" when the USAF fighter mafia was worried that the program was heading for the chopping block (like the Army's RAH-66 Comanche). All it meant was that the engineers were scuttling around trying to figure our how to stuff a couple of JDAMS in the weapons bays- I don't think it ever got as far as the trial stage. They were too busy trying to figure out how stop things like the tail plane disintegrating and the avionics suite overheating and shutting down at the time.

It magically (and quietly) lost the "A" about 2 weeks after the Quadrennial Defense Review was published and funding was secured. What a coincidence.

As regards the difference between the $135 "sticker price" the GAO figure actually reflects the total cost to the US taxpayer. I would argue that it's the $135m figure that represents the "spin".

The USAF is famous in Washington for cooking the books and faking data on its new programs to make sure they get funded- all services do it, but for some reason the USAF really knows how to take the piss. Indeed, it was the B-1B program which led Congress to institute a whole knew framework for defence appropriations- the Goldwater-Nicholls Act.

[RonO]

so if the chain sawed airframe is scrapped, how much would it cost to buy a replacement?

IOW by all means bitch about the umpty 10's of billions spent to develop the darn thing but pleeze don't go along with some accountant's (yuk spit) fabrication that just leads to the kind of bovine poop we see round here: "yankee rip off - JSF prices wild - $28m jet now over $100m"

my current fave is a bunch of down under agenda laden types that with this kind of bogus math reckons Raptor at $135m a copy is a better buy than JSF at $100m plus. Silly tossers even got their pet politico all orgasmic about it.

Loosers in all this? You folks & your peers. Any chance of reasoned debate is the first to the leave the building.

[Flash2001]

Well...
Those who flew or serviced the F101 might remember that, if you grabbed the canopy jack with the canopy closed, it locked irretievably. The solution was to gather everyone who had never seen a canopy blown and say "Hey fellas, come and look at this!"
After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!

[sprucemoose]

RonO:

The USAF just gave LM a contract for an additional F-22, which I believe is to replace the test aircraft which crashed at Nellis. Theirs for a cool $143.1 million!

[JG1]

When it comes down to it, and I was running a country having a scrap with the US, for equal cash outlay I'd rather have 100 MiG-21's or 50 MiG-23's to each 1 Raptor. Raptor might be good but it can't be everywhere at once.

[RonO]

SG, read that myself last night in AWST, $143m it is. You gonna break it to the ozzies?

100 Mig-21's - why stop there? How 'bout 500 Spitfires? 10,000 Sopwiths? Million bows n'arrers? Zillion rocks?

[JG1]

Even one Spit will be enough when the man is stuck in the Raptor with the canopy jammed!

[Zoom]

During the Cold War - aah, those were the days - a friend of mine reckoned that we should scrap all of the fancy jets and buy xxx thousand Grumman Agcats, armed with SNEB rockets and flown by youngsters with PPLs. He had a point: if you were a commie trooper, would you rather see one Harrier or 1000 Agcats coming at you?

[hotshots!]

Originally Posted by Norman Stanley Fletcher

My own nation has been using a desperate aircraft, the Tornado F3, for many years and has mercifully never had to take on another fighter for real. It was probably better than the Phantom but when everyone else has F15s, F-16s, F-18s, Mig 29s, Su30s etc, then it sadly does not cut it among the big boys.

Norman Stanley Fletcher, the day you are CR on the F3 you can comment, until then, zip it.

[SASless]

The F3 ever fire a missile in anger?

[Almost_done]

Originally Posted by SASless

The F3 ever fire a missile in anger?

Maybe in operations, but never in anger.

[barit1]

The word now is that it was a software jamup.