Joining the RAF
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Spawney,
You have to make your mind up pretty quickly about whether you want to be a dentist or a pilot in the RAF as the cut off age for starting training as a pilot is 23yrs and 6mths. How long is a dentistry degree?
Why do you want to join the RAF anyway? If, as it seems from some of your posts, you would like to make lots of money but are not too keen on the fundamentals of RAF life (drill, PT, deployments, being sha*ted etc) then why don't you become a civilian dentist and thanks to the wonders of there not being enough dentists to go around, rake in the cash that way!
In the meantime, go to university and join a university air squadron so that you'll actually get an idea of what the RAF is all about. Go the local Armed Forces Careers Office and ask to arrange a visit to a local station and ask as many questions as you can.
By the by, I know one ex-nav who finished his time in the RAF, left, trained as a dentist, came back in and retd as a Gp Capt!
You have to make your mind up pretty quickly about whether you want to be a dentist or a pilot in the RAF as the cut off age for starting training as a pilot is 23yrs and 6mths. How long is a dentistry degree?
Why do you want to join the RAF anyway? If, as it seems from some of your posts, you would like to make lots of money but are not too keen on the fundamentals of RAF life (drill, PT, deployments, being sha*ted etc) then why don't you become a civilian dentist and thanks to the wonders of there not being enough dentists to go around, rake in the cash that way!
In the meantime, go to university and join a university air squadron so that you'll actually get an idea of what the RAF is all about. Go the local Armed Forces Careers Office and ask to arrange a visit to a local station and ask as many questions as you can.
By the by, I know one ex-nav who finished his time in the RAF, left, trained as a dentist, came back in and retd as a Gp Capt!
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I'd show a little more respect
Originally Posted by Spawney
Judging by your comment i'd guess you,re 8
The blokes on this website are NOT 8. The vast majority of us are combat-experienced military men and women who have got a butt-load of t-shirts. We are also some of the most proficient combat-experienced military men and women on the planet.
So, I suggest you pin your ears back. Because if you're going to get into a pi$$ing competition with us, then:
a. You'll lose.
b. You don't stand a cat in hell's chance of getting through training, where you're going to have to stick alot worse than the odd sarcastic but poignant comment.
You've got alot of work to do. There are thousands of people in the queue with you, many of whom would get in the Guinness Book of Records for doing Drill, PT and time away from home, to be a pilot in the RAF. Go to Uni, get a grip of your own life aspirations, and then take another look at it. You WILL NOT pass selection in the near future.
And I know. It took me 6 attempts to get in, and I'm now flying fighters.
That is, unless you know better than us.....
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Cut the guy a bit of slack - I don't think any of us enjoyed the a*se bits of IOT/OASC/ITC (or OACTU as it is now!), and I don't blame him for not looking forward to it. It is, however, a necessary evil to getting to where you want to be, and if you really want to be a pilot then go for it.
HOWEVER, as has been mentioned it is definitely worth sorting out WHY you want to join and most definitely what you want to join as!! If you want to make lots of money filling other people's rotten teeth then become a civvy dentist. If, however, you want to snot around in some of the best boys toys around, doing a worthwhile job for Queen and country (and for the fun of it) then I highly recommend becoming aircrew.
The pay is not fantastic but you will also never go poor (unlike those poor firemen who only get £20K+). If you stay as a Flt Lt all your life you can easily make £50K before you retire, but that is not the reason anyone joins - if a civvy company asked you to do half the things we do, or spend half as much time away, they'd be paying some LARGE 6-figure salaries!
Don't be put off by some of the snappy replies on here - there have been a few real tools asking similar questions as yourself recently and then giving some wise-ass answers when they didn't like what they were told. There is a lot of good gen both on here and in other places on the web.
Finally, go see your local RAFCIO and speak to them, possibly with a view to joining the UAS if /when you do go to uni. Good luck if you do decide to go for it.
John
HOWEVER, as has been mentioned it is definitely worth sorting out WHY you want to join and most definitely what you want to join as!! If you want to make lots of money filling other people's rotten teeth then become a civvy dentist. If, however, you want to snot around in some of the best boys toys around, doing a worthwhile job for Queen and country (and for the fun of it) then I highly recommend becoming aircrew.
The pay is not fantastic but you will also never go poor (unlike those poor firemen who only get £20K+). If you stay as a Flt Lt all your life you can easily make £50K before you retire, but that is not the reason anyone joins - if a civvy company asked you to do half the things we do, or spend half as much time away, they'd be paying some LARGE 6-figure salaries!
Don't be put off by some of the snappy replies on here - there have been a few real tools asking similar questions as yourself recently and then giving some wise-ass answers when they didn't like what they were told. There is a lot of good gen both on here and in other places on the web.
Finally, go see your local RAFCIO and speak to them, possibly with a view to joining the UAS if /when you do go to uni. Good luck if you do decide to go for it.
John
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Originally Posted by eagle 86
JJJ and others - I think that what we have here is another little jumped up won't come down wank who hasn't got what it takes to make it!
GAGS
E86
GAGS
E86
also i was an avid member of the ATC for a couple of years.
Whats with all the crap? You wouldnt consider doing a job if the pay wasn't right, would you.
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Spawny
absolutely right fella. Take a look at the thread about FRI, seems to be a fair focus on cash there....
Banter here is harsh, don't take it personally, you are just posting at a different stage of life to most of the rest of us. When I went to Biggin Hill, there was no interweb so there were no fora like this to bone up on stuff and ask questions. At least you have taken the time to do a bit of research.
Ignore the stuff that seems like it is personal, but it is just HUGELY unusual to get someone asking very simple questions when they haven't decided what they want to do at Uni - to some of us that just smacks of a lack of commitment to the job we all pretend we don't love anymore.
Whatever anyone here says, being aircrew is one of the best jobs in the World. Being a dentist makes you loads of cash...you decide
absolutely right fella. Take a look at the thread about FRI, seems to be a fair focus on cash there....
Banter here is harsh, don't take it personally, you are just posting at a different stage of life to most of the rest of us. When I went to Biggin Hill, there was no interweb so there were no fora like this to bone up on stuff and ask questions. At least you have taken the time to do a bit of research.
Ignore the stuff that seems like it is personal, but it is just HUGELY unusual to get someone asking very simple questions when they haven't decided what they want to do at Uni - to some of us that just smacks of a lack of commitment to the job we all pretend we don't love anymore.
Whatever anyone here says, being aircrew is one of the best jobs in the World. Being a dentist makes you loads of cash...you decide
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Whats with all the crap? You wouldnt consider doing a job if the pay wasn't right, would you.
Sit down, and think about what you're saying. Do you really think you're going to cope with six years of what is likely to be the hardest training you'll ever do?
Because it doesn't sound like it at the moment.
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Actually, I would ... I didn't give a snuff about the pay scale when I applied (still don't, really, as long as it'll keep me in beer). I knew I wanted to fly for HMFC and that's all that matters -- and as I understand life you need a fairly high level of determination to get through the flying training mangle.
At the same time the Portuguese Navy was so badly paid that most of them worked 0700-1400, and then went to their second civvy job in the pm.
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toatally concur. Pay is not the reason I am in the Armed Forces. There are lots of reasons I joined and pay was way down the list. There are lots of reasons Im still in and pay isnt one of them... Like the fella said. as long as Ive got enough for a couple of beers on an evening then jobsa good un.....
saynig that, when I first joined we were paid fortnightly (gawd knows why) and my first fortnightly pay was £11.....cool
I remember a few months later the pusser overpaid me and then once they had noticed, they took it all back in a oner, leaving me with a pay chit of £36 for the month....and that month we were in Gib for 3 weeks.....guess who was overdrawn that month,...tee hee
saynig that, when I first joined we were paid fortnightly (gawd knows why) and my first fortnightly pay was £11.....cool
I remember a few months later the pusser overpaid me and then once they had noticed, they took it all back in a oner, leaving me with a pay chit of £36 for the month....and that month we were in Gib for 3 weeks.....guess who was overdrawn that month,...tee hee
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Spawney old chap,
Been away for a few days - as a matter of fact spent twenty years in Pussers doing a job I loved earning HALF the pay I could have outside - its a lifestyle mate - I say again, your attitude to some of the old hands here makes me fairly convinced you don't have what it takes to make it in a Defence Force!
GAGS
E86
Been away for a few days - as a matter of fact spent twenty years in Pussers doing a job I loved earning HALF the pay I could have outside - its a lifestyle mate - I say again, your attitude to some of the old hands here makes me fairly convinced you don't have what it takes to make it in a Defence Force!
GAGS
E86
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Spawney, as somebody who is a little closer to your age bracket and was in a similar position a few years ago I can appreciate your uneasiness.
However, the advice given here so far is bob on. Decide what you want and sharpish - as meag said, if you want to take Dentistry you probably wont be able to apply pilot. When I was in upper sixth I was asking the same questions at the AFCO, their advice was simple - go to uni, decide what you want to do in life, grow up a little bit and in the mean time if you're serious about the RAF join a UAS.
I'm still on a UAS and know that the RAF is where I want to end up post graduation. The only further advice I can give from my experience is if you want a picture of the Air Force beyond the UAS bubble is to apply to a uni that falls under the catchment of a UAS operating from a front line base - ESUAS, NUAS; you're going to get a good idea of the 'big boys rules' and mess life if you spend enough time around these places. It's a win-win situation - you can visit and experience any branch you can think of without commitement to it or the RAF, you can fly the new syllabus (even though it leaves a lot to be desired) regardless of what you may like to join the Air Force as, and you still get the benefits of it being socially acceptable to drink yourself to oblivion and not get out of bed before lunchtime the following day when you're on campus.
Don't let the banter here phase you, just remember most of the guys reading this are serving already, have gone through the selection and training systems and have come out of it amongst the best in the world - in many ways they probably have earned the right to be a little cynical and critical at times.
However, the advice given here so far is bob on. Decide what you want and sharpish - as meag said, if you want to take Dentistry you probably wont be able to apply pilot. When I was in upper sixth I was asking the same questions at the AFCO, their advice was simple - go to uni, decide what you want to do in life, grow up a little bit and in the mean time if you're serious about the RAF join a UAS.
I'm still on a UAS and know that the RAF is where I want to end up post graduation. The only further advice I can give from my experience is if you want a picture of the Air Force beyond the UAS bubble is to apply to a uni that falls under the catchment of a UAS operating from a front line base - ESUAS, NUAS; you're going to get a good idea of the 'big boys rules' and mess life if you spend enough time around these places. It's a win-win situation - you can visit and experience any branch you can think of without commitement to it or the RAF, you can fly the new syllabus (even though it leaves a lot to be desired) regardless of what you may like to join the Air Force as, and you still get the benefits of it being socially acceptable to drink yourself to oblivion and not get out of bed before lunchtime the following day when you're on campus.
Don't let the banter here phase you, just remember most of the guys reading this are serving already, have gone through the selection and training systems and have come out of it amongst the best in the world - in many ways they probably have earned the right to be a little cynical and critical at times.
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Spawney if you're the real deal and not just a wind-up merchant, get on with it and join, man. One of two things will happen: you'll either get chopped so fast (probably for attitude) that you'll be able to get on with a dentistry degree as if nothing had happened (call it a gap year or something), or you won't get chopped (because despite your attitude, you're a natural pilot) and you'll never look back.
You'd never look back because:
a) being a military pilot is so much better than being a fang-snatcher or anything else; or
b) peer pressure would be such that you couldn't live with the shame of not making it all the way to the front line and being the best pilot ever, so you just have to press on; or
c) having convinced yourself that you are the best military pilot ever, or that a) was wrong and that b) no longer mattered, you left the military, joined the airlines and spent the rest of your life living like a king; or
d) before you've realised it, you'll have grown old, tired and confused to the point where you've either forgotten why you joined, or what other careers may once have been an option, and have become too institutionalised to do anything else; or
e) a combination of the above.
You'd never look back because:
a) being a military pilot is so much better than being a fang-snatcher or anything else; or
b) peer pressure would be such that you couldn't live with the shame of not making it all the way to the front line and being the best pilot ever, so you just have to press on; or
c) having convinced yourself that you are the best military pilot ever, or that a) was wrong and that b) no longer mattered, you left the military, joined the airlines and spent the rest of your life living like a king; or
d) before you've realised it, you'll have grown old, tired and confused to the point where you've either forgotten why you joined, or what other careers may once have been an option, and have become too institutionalised to do anything else; or
e) a combination of the above.
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Originally Posted by Spawney
also i was an avid member of the ATC for a couple of years.
Well, if that statement is true then you didn't pay much attention while you were there, I'll be bound.
Listen, young man, to one who has been involved in officer training. The RAF attracts 5000 people a year at the Recruiting Office (your first port of call; been there?) who want to be an officer. Of these, only about 1500 go forward for selection to OASC and 500 (each year) successfully arrive at officer training where about 3% fail to make the grade! The RAF is reducing in numbers and its requirement for pilots is about 100 per year! Therefore, it is VERY SELECTIVE and YOU NEED TO SHOW COMMITMENT. Before you even think about applying you must know what you want to do and have some alternatives that are linked. For example, if I cannot be a pilot, I might be a WSO, or try ATC! Dentists are employed as dentists (although I did know a vet and a doctor who joined as aircrew) once they have qualified and been to university. I suspect that if OASC received an application with Pilot & Dentist as the 2 choices, because they are so diametrically opposed (in RAF recruitment terms), they would not even offer an interview.
So, the way ahead for you, young Spawney, is to get yourself down to your RAF Recruiting Office and ask a few questions off the record. Adopt the approach, "I'm only 18 and I am interested in becoming an officer in the RAF; flying or ground branches, what can you tell me please?" They will be only too pleased to assist. Then drop in, "I'm quite keen to go to university to do dentistry; what options are there for dentists?". Now you have them hooked; you've shown yourself to be mature; they have you on the database; they will guide you through the process; and you will either succeed or fail but at least you will fail based upon an official understanding of what was required.
On merit, it's better to come to selection for officer armed with a university degree but A-Levels will get you in if you meet the very high and demanding criteria set. Reading between the lines of your posts here (and I suspect others who have replied hostilely might agree) it sounds to me as if you would benefit from gaining a little experience of life either at university or by taking a gap challenge (the latter will be well thought of) before you actually apply (you could even join the University Air Squadron and experience the RAF that way). Such a route would allow you time to gain knowledge, grow up a little and therefore fair better once you start the process. Right now, based upon what I read from you here, you wouldn't get past first base.
Good luck.
Bloggs
PS. I apologise if I have repeated anything others might have said, I admit I didn't read it all through.
Whilst I agree that some of Spawneys comments have displayed a certain naivity, I think that some of the replies he has received have been overly aggressive. It is no point in just shooting him down in flames time after time (Eag86), either give him useful advice or flame him once and leave it at that.
For what it's worth I think that his attitude is typical of many. Modern educational culture is so driven towards future earning potential to pay off student loans etc that it's hardly surprising that we see posters with the "how much can I earn and then go civvy" attitude.
Worrying about 6 or 18 weeks of bull and not going home illustrates another point. If I had been told on joining that IOT was two years I would have cracked on if I had the chance of FJ flying at the end of it. I personally had no idea of the pay scales on joining - some people will think that foolish but it came very low on my list of priorities.
For what it's worth I think that his attitude is typical of many. Modern educational culture is so driven towards future earning potential to pay off student loans etc that it's hardly surprising that we see posters with the "how much can I earn and then go civvy" attitude.
Worrying about 6 or 18 weeks of bull and not going home illustrates another point. If I had been told on joining that IOT was two years I would have cracked on if I had the chance of FJ flying at the end of it. I personally had no idea of the pay scales on joining - some people will think that foolish but it came very low on my list of priorities.
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Where's he gone?
Anyone noticed that Spawney has gone quiet?
I haven't laughed so much for ages. Clearly by the way he writes, he's a wind-up merchant.
If all he is worried about is not having some free time, not having enough money and having to do some physical exercise, he's looking at the wrong career. I suggest he becomes a dentist - one who gets paid by the taxpayer for his training and then doesn't support the NHS as a NHS Dentist.
Yes - old and bitter but then I am still waiting for JPA to come on line! - oops - wrong thread!
I haven't laughed so much for ages. Clearly by the way he writes, he's a wind-up merchant.
If all he is worried about is not having some free time, not having enough money and having to do some physical exercise, he's looking at the wrong career. I suggest he becomes a dentist - one who gets paid by the taxpayer for his training and then doesn't support the NHS as a NHS Dentist.
Yes - old and bitter but then I am still waiting for JPA to come on line! - oops - wrong thread!
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Originally Posted by Stringy
God, I know when I finish IOT (on IOT in July) I'm not going to be caring about the money! £21k will be more money then I've ever had before, I'm not going to be saying "Damn, I can't wait til I reach Flt Lt so I can start earning £30k+".
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Originally Posted by Spawney
I have more than enough to make it.