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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:41
  #5421 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Now where's the money coming from for those?

And as for the Chinese trip when will the RN have a worked up F-35 group?/

All b******* IMHO - his Monday morning play for news headlines - I understand Heseltine did the same I heard...

This is all published and publically available. IOC Carrier is December 2020 with F35 and Crowsnest. As far as I am aware, that plan is still tracking to date. The plan has always been a flag waving far east trip in 2021.


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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:50
  #5422 (permalink)  
 
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this seems to be delusional... are the RN REALLY thinking they may fight the Chinese???
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:58
  #5423 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
this seems to be delusional... are the RN REALLY thinking they may fight the Chinese???
No, not at all, and only ever with allies if things got so bad. That is not why they are deploying.

I thought this infographic I had seen from 2017 was official, but it seems it was created by Save The Royal Navy from various sources, Seems we are still tracking to this.

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/tim...arrier-strike/

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Old 11th Feb 2019, 17:26
  #5424 (permalink)  
 
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Like that graphic - truly a picture is worth a thousand words
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 18:51
  #5425 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Seems we're buying a couple of these as well......

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-t...pecial-forces/

I like the flight deck on pillars idea, maybe the BrahMos will just fly right through...

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Old 11th Feb 2019, 20:46
  #5426 (permalink)  
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What's he done? Robbed a bank? Kidnapped the Chancellor?
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 22:01
  #5427 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
this seems to be delusional... are the RN REALLY thinking they may fight the Chinese???
It is possible to sail a warship somewhere without the intention of starting a fight. In fact the RN do it on an almost daily basis, as do the French and Americans.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 08:21
  #5428 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely - but if you sound off about how you are turning up off other people's coasts "to send a message" don't be surprised if they get your message and decide to act on it........................
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:56
  #5429 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Absolutely - but if you sound off about how you are turning up off other people's coasts "to send a message" don't be surprised if they get your message and decide to act on it........................
Such as what? If the RN are in international waters or transiting territorial waters under the right of free passage then any military action against them is an act of war.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 12:17
  #5430 (permalink)  
 
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There are many ways to make life uncomfortable for the Brits without starting a shooting match

but if they did sink a QE what would you do?? Invade???

The public wouldn't fancy escallation and you might discover a sudden shortage of allies.....
​​​​​
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:18
  #5431 (permalink)  
 
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The idea that a sinking of one or both of the new Carriers would generate a "War" is laughable at best.

Absolutely it would be a genuine "act of war" but that does not equate to "War" itself.

As the Man. asked....who and how would you invade the perp's turf?

Lay out the assets available to the British Military to accomplish such a feat....remembering if they can sink a Carrier....then sending some Amphib ships and some Frigates and the odd Destroyer to the bottom would be well within their means too.

Allies in the retaliation.....like the American Navy showing up in the Falklands or the Suez Canal maybe?

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:19
  #5432 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PeterGee View Post
Interesting the ex Captain of QE, Jeremy Kydd quoted saying

"ďWe are constrained by the F-35 buy rate even though that was accelerated in SDSR in 2015, so initial operating capability numbers in 2020 are going to be very modest indeed.

We will flesh it out with helicopters, and a lot depends on how many USMC F-35s come on our first deployment in 2021. But by 2023, we are committed to 24 UK jets onboard, and after that itís too far away to say.Ē
Personally, I'd be amazed if a QEC ever gets 24 UK F35 embarked.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:04
  #5433 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The idea that a sinking of one or both of the new Carriers would generate a "War" is laughable at best.

Absolutely it would be a genuine "act of war" but that does not equate to "War" itself.

As the Man. asked....who and how would you invade the perp's turf?

Lay out the assets available to the British Military to accomplish such a feat....remembering if they can sink a Carrier....then sending some Amphib ships and some Frigates and the odd Destroyer to the bottom would be well within their means too.

Allies in the retaliation.....like the American Navy showing up in the Falklands or the Suez Canal maybe?
If as reported the USMC have an F-35 squadron embarked during the deployment I'd expect the US to be reasonably interested in what happens.

But I still fail to see why the Chinese would suddenly decide to attack a foreign warship acting in accordance with international law. It's all a bit Tom Clancy.

Last edited by Bing; 12th Feb 2019 at 17:26.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:47
  #5434 (permalink)  
 
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Just out Gotta love the still intro

"Why US carriers are the best in the world"

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 18:28
  #5435 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Personally, I'd be amazed if a QEC ever gets 24 UK F35 embarked.

i suspect there are people that wear light blue that would like to ensure you are right, but letís hope not hey. We have invested in a capability for a reason, so letís hope it is leveraged!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 18:47
  #5436 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
There are many ways to make life uncomfortable for the Brits without starting a shooting match

but if they did sink a QE what would you do?? Invade???

The public wouldn't fancy escallation and you might discover a sudden shortage of allies.....
​​​​​
With an isolationist in the white house the UK would be left high and dry. No pun intended.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:18
  #5437 (permalink)  
 
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Wee,

The Man in the White House is not an isolationist....far from it.

What he is....is a President who puts American National Security and Economic Interests "FIRST".

He looks to our allies to pick up their share of the cost of their own defense.

He also intends to avoid unnecessary and endless wars.

Lots of folks here ranted about "Bush's War" in Iraq....which followed the one in Afghanistan....which continues till today nineteen years later....and now whine about the current President who is working to see and end to that war.

He has brought the North Koreans to the negotiating table....something no other President has been able to accomplish.

Under this President we are seeing American Troops leaving Syria.

In time we will see our Troops leaving Afghanistan and Iraq....and some other places as well.

Bush and Obama got us tangled up in places we had no need to be....we do not see that happening with the current President.

If our National Security interests are at risk....under this President you can count on his support.

Otherwise....don't expect to see us getting involved.

I am quite happy to see the change in thinking by the President.....as far too many lives have been lost due to bad decisions in the past.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 01:34
  #5438 (permalink)  
 
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SASless, I'm sure a percent in the US will agree with you and share your opinions. I've see repeated what you said.

Some would say Trump puts Trump's interests before everything else. The last president that was also good for aussie ADF was Bush jr, I think he was also good with the UK defence forces. The agreements that were signed stand both countries well.
As to the rest. the pentagon doesn't share this opinion on overseas deployments, as does a long list of other gov agencies. When you break it, you own it.
Nato hasn't committed another $, than that was already agreed to before Trump.
NK hasn't changed a thing for 50 years. Push forward till the west reacts and draws the line, Go forward with unfulfilled promises, till things settle down. Then back to their fundamental path. NK won with no US/SK exercises. A big mistake on the US part.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 04:27
  #5439 (permalink)  
 
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Golder, we shall see. Remember....mark a Man by his actions and not by his words.

The "Break it...you own it!" Rule is exactly what got us into endless war.

At some point....we have to withdraw....as we just plain cannot afford it financially.

Had we stopped with the over throw of the bad guys early in the Afghan War....and not sent in Conventional Forces...perhaps that War would not have dragged on for so long.

Had we not gone into Iraq....or gone in and established order....and left.....it would not have been the disaster it became.

If we had not overthrown the Leaders in Egypt and Libya....perhaps we would not have the mess we do in the Middle East.

We. had a President that "led from behind"....went in for Regime Change....and who refused to admit Islamic Terrorism was the threat it really was.

Trump has a different view of things....as he is not a politician and does not think like a politician....he is a business man....who makes decisions in a much different way than the previous Presidents have done.

That does not make him wrong....it does make him different.

We have not had a whole lot of success using the traditional advisors and traditional method of decision making have we?

Let's see how the North Korea thing works out, how our trade issues with China get resolved, and how economic sanctions work on Russia and Iran.

Then we can critique Trump's results.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:38
  #5440 (permalink)  
 
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Getting back to the UK and its carriers what's the current status of the two carriers? When does QE resume F35 trials and when does the 2nd carrier in outfit start sea trials?
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