Yeovilton or Culdrose
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Yeovilton or Culdrose
I,m an RN FJ re-tread going through Shawbury at the minute and a little undecided about the future, in so much as somerset vs cornwall, lynx vs merlin, even abo SAR is now possible. Your thoughts and gen would be appreciated.
Cornwall is very pleasent in its two month summer, unfortunately its also overrun with tourists. The rest of the year the weather is unpredictable, you can never tell whether it is going to rain, pour, thunder or monsoon with hurricane force winds. It is also MUCH further away than you could believe possible and still be on the mainland.
On the plus side, you can throw away your snow chains.
I spent three years at St. Mawgan, I would choose Somerset.
On the plus side, you can throw away your snow chains.
I spent three years at St. Mawgan, I would choose Somerset.
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Zummerzet every time. The clag at Helston can sit there for days, and the highlight of the social scene was the first Sat on the month grab a gronk at the Truro hospital nurse's home party.
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Suppose everything depends on which airfields survive. It's unlikely that the MoD will be able to justify the continuation of Yeovilton when there's hardly any helo traffic there and a very active base at Culdrose, and of course Yeovilton has already been ruled-out as a potential F-35 (or Typhoon) base (supposedly because the runway isn't long enough - funny how it was long enough for Phantoms and V-Bomber dets, but evidently not long enough for a new vstol aircraft!).
On the other hand, all of the FAA's top brass, past and present, probably lives much nearer Yeovilton, so you can imagine that there will be plenty of support and lobbying for keeping the airfield open for purely selfish reasons (not that I'd suggest for a minute that any Navy chiefs would act in this way *ahem*). But moving all of the helo assets from Culdrose would be politically-risky too, as it would inevitably destroy Helston's local economy and probably much more besides.
Logically, the best plan would be to close both airfields and hand-over St.Mawgan to the FAA, as it has a huge runway, a full shelter complex, an enormous servicing hangar, and a blossoming local airport which depends on MoD support (the council claim that they can't afford crash/rescue themselves). It would also be hugely expensive to return the airfield to its pre-use condition, and it probably has zero value as development land, because of it's "green" location. At least it would keep some jobs in Cornwall should Culdrose be disposed-of, but I don't imagine the idea would be too popular with Yeovilton!
It really is very difficult to predict what will happen with all three bases at present. Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it must be pretty unlikely that all three bases will survive.
On the other hand, all of the FAA's top brass, past and present, probably lives much nearer Yeovilton, so you can imagine that there will be plenty of support and lobbying for keeping the airfield open for purely selfish reasons (not that I'd suggest for a minute that any Navy chiefs would act in this way *ahem*). But moving all of the helo assets from Culdrose would be politically-risky too, as it would inevitably destroy Helston's local economy and probably much more besides.
Logically, the best plan would be to close both airfields and hand-over St.Mawgan to the FAA, as it has a huge runway, a full shelter complex, an enormous servicing hangar, and a blossoming local airport which depends on MoD support (the council claim that they can't afford crash/rescue themselves). It would also be hugely expensive to return the airfield to its pre-use condition, and it probably has zero value as development land, because of it's "green" location. At least it would keep some jobs in Cornwall should Culdrose be disposed-of, but I don't imagine the idea would be too popular with Yeovilton!
It really is very difficult to predict what will happen with all three bases at present. Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it must be pretty unlikely that all three bases will survive.
Mr Mclelland,
If this is some journo troll, then you have suceeded. As a journo, your lack of awareness of what goes on at Yeovilton is of concern. Even though the Shar has gone, the base is still the home of 845, 846 and 848 sqns, 702 and 815 (the largest helicopter sqn in europe), Jetstreams of Heron Flight and Hawks of RNFSF. That does not include Histerical Flight either. The place is still busy and still has more aircraft than the average RAF Station. I suggest you do some more research before you start prophesying the demise of Culdrose and Yeovilton...One thing IS for sure......St Mawgan is going.
Oh and by the way...the basing decision for JCA was due to environmental issues, not the length of the runway!
I forgot to mention that it is also the home of the FAA Museum, the Defence Helicopter Support Agency, the RN Flight Safety and Accident Investigation Centre, The Aircraft Control School, the Fighter Control School, and an important NATO organisation!
If this is some journo troll, then you have suceeded. As a journo, your lack of awareness of what goes on at Yeovilton is of concern. Even though the Shar has gone, the base is still the home of 845, 846 and 848 sqns, 702 and 815 (the largest helicopter sqn in europe), Jetstreams of Heron Flight and Hawks of RNFSF. That does not include Histerical Flight either. The place is still busy and still has more aircraft than the average RAF Station. I suggest you do some more research before you start prophesying the demise of Culdrose and Yeovilton...One thing IS for sure......St Mawgan is going.
Oh and by the way...the basing decision for JCA was due to environmental issues, not the length of the runway!
I forgot to mention that it is also the home of the FAA Museum, the Defence Helicopter Support Agency, the RN Flight Safety and Accident Investigation Centre, The Aircraft Control School, the Fighter Control School, and an important NATO organisation!
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Wind your neck in Bruiser he wasn't chopped, he is as he says, a re-tread.
Hey Weasel old buddy get yourself to Yeovilton and become a junglie, at least you'll be doing something useful with the big bus then.
Culdrose sucks apart from if you are single for about 4 weeks in the summer!! As i know you aren't then come Cider country i'll get you a pint in the bar...
Hey Weasel old buddy get yourself to Yeovilton and become a junglie, at least you'll be doing something useful with the big bus then.
Culdrose sucks apart from if you are single for about 4 weeks in the summer!! As i know you aren't then come Cider country i'll get you a pint in the bar...
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Widger, your snotty attitude aside (which I'm sure we could all do without), my posting is not a "journo troll" (I think you've been reading too many copies of The Sun) it's a posting as part of a discussion, intended for people who want to discuss this subject, okay? Having been an aviation writer for over 25 years, I certainly wouldn't have any need to seek any advice from you, thanks very much.
The point is (for those who want a discussion, not an argument!) that Yeovilton no longer supports any fixed-wing activity, and the helicopter operations are patently insufficient to justify the base's survival, especially when Culdrose is taken into account. But as I already said, I think it's fair to say that the FAA will do their best to hang-on to Yeovilton for as long as possible, even though the existence of both Yeovilton and Culdrose must look unattainable from "bean-counter" point of view.
As for the F-35 (JSF), contrary to your comments Widger, the official MoD reason given for excluding Yeovilton from the saga was runway length, not environmental issues.
As for your sweeping comments about St.Mawgan Widger, nothing is for certain at all (and the use of captial letters doesn't change that fact!).
L1A2 - the future of St.Mawgan is still unclear. Flying activity is indeed going to be wound-up as you say (probably by the end of this year, not in two years), but the MoD hasn't made any plans to sell-off the base. For starters, the US Navy do not plan to leave just yet, and the future of the airport hasn't been settled. St.Mawgan is still on the MoD's list as a potential F-35 site and in view of it's strategic location, huge runway (9,000 x 300ft), HAS complex, extensive hardstandings and hangarage, it's obviously not going to be abandoned easily. It appears that (like many other airfields) the MoD would be obliged to return the airfield to its former state before disposing of it (not much chance of that happening, especially when it's effectively two airfields joined together) and there's no opportunity to redevelop the land because it's smack in the middle of Cornwall's countryside.
As I said previously, the logical decision would be to consolidate the Navy's rotary and fixed-wing assets at St.Mawgan (it would be the perfect shore base for whatever aircraft we ultimately select for carrier operation), but as ever, logic probably won't have much to do with the final decision
The point is (for those who want a discussion, not an argument!) that Yeovilton no longer supports any fixed-wing activity, and the helicopter operations are patently insufficient to justify the base's survival, especially when Culdrose is taken into account. But as I already said, I think it's fair to say that the FAA will do their best to hang-on to Yeovilton for as long as possible, even though the existence of both Yeovilton and Culdrose must look unattainable from "bean-counter" point of view.
As for the F-35 (JSF), contrary to your comments Widger, the official MoD reason given for excluding Yeovilton from the saga was runway length, not environmental issues.
As for your sweeping comments about St.Mawgan Widger, nothing is for certain at all (and the use of captial letters doesn't change that fact!).
L1A2 - the future of St.Mawgan is still unclear. Flying activity is indeed going to be wound-up as you say (probably by the end of this year, not in two years), but the MoD hasn't made any plans to sell-off the base. For starters, the US Navy do not plan to leave just yet, and the future of the airport hasn't been settled. St.Mawgan is still on the MoD's list as a potential F-35 site and in view of it's strategic location, huge runway (9,000 x 300ft), HAS complex, extensive hardstandings and hangarage, it's obviously not going to be abandoned easily. It appears that (like many other airfields) the MoD would be obliged to return the airfield to its former state before disposing of it (not much chance of that happening, especially when it's effectively two airfields joined together) and there's no opportunity to redevelop the land because it's smack in the middle of Cornwall's countryside.
As I said previously, the logical decision would be to consolidate the Navy's rotary and fixed-wing assets at St.Mawgan (it would be the perfect shore base for whatever aircraft we ultimately select for carrier operation), but as ever, logic probably won't have much to do with the final decision
Last edited by Tim McLelland; 2nd Apr 2006 at 12:38.
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Mr McLelland,
Have to agree with Widger, I'm afraid. There is more to Yeovilton than a few puff jets that used to be on the south of the airfield (almost typed southside there, phew). It is an extremely busy helicopter base with many other organisations who make up the entire Air Station.
I can't see how the demise of the Sea Harrier will affect any decision on its future. Besides, Culdrose is equally as busy and I doubt there would be much room there for any more squadrons.
Have to agree with Widger, I'm afraid. There is more to Yeovilton than a few puff jets that used to be on the south of the airfield (almost typed southside there, phew). It is an extremely busy helicopter base with many other organisations who make up the entire Air Station.
I can't see how the demise of the Sea Harrier will affect any decision on its future. Besides, Culdrose is equally as busy and I doubt there would be much room there for any more squadrons.
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Bruiser, there are certainly plenty of units located at Yeovilton but you have to look at things from the MoD's point of view. Lots of units doesn't necessarily equate to lots of physical flying activity, and ultimately that's the only reson an airfield's existence can be justified. Non-flying units can obviously be re-located, or partitioned-off from the actual airfield, as looks likely to happen at Scampton for example.
But as I've already said, nothing's certain, and it remains to be seen what will happen. However I think it's a pretty safe bet that Yeovilton, Culdrose and St.Mawgan certainly won't stay in their current state for all that long. Ooh, this is where I came-in at posting #6!
But as I've already said, nothing's certain, and it remains to be seen what will happen. However I think it's a pretty safe bet that Yeovilton, Culdrose and St.Mawgan certainly won't stay in their current state for all that long. Ooh, this is where I came-in at posting #6!
Mr McLelland, You may have been an aviation journo for 25 years but that dose not mean you are correct. I think you should reserve your musings to writing about the Vulcan and keep well clear of subjects which you obviously haven't got a clue about. There is no room at Culdrose and Yeovilton will remain busy for a good few years yet. Even when the Shars were embarked it was still a busy place. I suggest you direct your attention towards a Service that re-opens an airfield just for 9 aircraft and them sends everything else it can find (even though there are perfectly good bunkers) into the place, just to justify it's existance. The rub will come when the whole of the A1 is covered in controlled airspace and those bases such as St Mawgan, Chivenor and Brawdy are covered in trees!
Did my attitude come across as snotty....good it was meant to!
Did my attitude come across as snotty....good it was meant to!
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Widger, I'd be grateful if (for the sake of others using this forum) you could avoid wandering-off into vaguely abusive comments at every opportunity. What point is there to this? A forum is supposed to be a place to discuss topics, and if you have a view then by all means share it, but please don't assume that your view is any better than anyone else's. I've offered my thoughts and I corrected a minor point which you mentioned previously, that's all. If you don't agree with my comments that's fine - I don't agree with yours either, but could we stop this childishness please?
I've noted your comments however but I think you're looking at this from a naval point of view. Can you not understand that things undoubtedly look very different from the MoD's position where they are ultimately dis-interested in which particular service operates from any given airfield? Although Culdrose is already credited as being Europe's busiest helicopter base, it doesn't mean that they don't have sufficient capacity for Yeovilton's helicopters too. But you have to weigh-in the consideration that there's a huge airfield sitting empty over on the other side of Cornwall, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to dispose of it economically. Admittedly, I don't imagine for a minute that the navy would be relocated to St.Mawgan, even though it would probably be the most sensible arangement, but you can see how all of these factors have to be considered, and this is why I (and lots of other people) don't think the future of all three bases is all that clear.
I've noted your comments however but I think you're looking at this from a naval point of view. Can you not understand that things undoubtedly look very different from the MoD's position where they are ultimately dis-interested in which particular service operates from any given airfield? Although Culdrose is already credited as being Europe's busiest helicopter base, it doesn't mean that they don't have sufficient capacity for Yeovilton's helicopters too. But you have to weigh-in the consideration that there's a huge airfield sitting empty over on the other side of Cornwall, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to dispose of it economically. Admittedly, I don't imagine for a minute that the navy would be relocated to St.Mawgan, even though it would probably be the most sensible arangement, but you can see how all of these factors have to be considered, and this is why I (and lots of other people) don't think the future of all three bases is all that clear.
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Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
The point is (for those who want a discussion, not an argument!) that Yeovilton no longer supports any fixed-wing activity, and the helicopter operations are patently insufficient to justify the base's survival, especially when Culdrose is taken into account.
The last time I visited Yeovilton for a presentation it was made clear to me that the station will remain the largest (by a/c number) military air station in Europe and the busiest by a/c movements. If the Army decide to move their Lynx there then there will be more than 120 helos and fixed wing operating. Culdrose is also chockers with Merlin, Sea King and Hawks so no room in there.
The FAA seems alive and well (including 800 Sqn stood up with GR7s) and can fully justify their 2 1/2 air stations (the 1/2 is COTT which we seem to be taking over).
Fly Navy