Pierre Clostermann (Merged)
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Yes, that's the Scapa to which I refer. I couldn't remember whether it was 'Flow' or 'Floe'.
Well you may be right, it could be made up. I'm sure a spotter could check whether what he wrote in that case was real or not.
The book is clearly very 'episodic', and not in any sense an autobiography. And maybe it was made up, but my point was simply that in addition to his Wartime service, whatever that actually was, he was a phenomenally powerful writer.
Of course, we're all anonymous here, but I've had no connection with Clostermann at all.
Well you may be right, it could be made up. I'm sure a spotter could check whether what he wrote in that case was real or not.
The book is clearly very 'episodic', and not in any sense an autobiography. And maybe it was made up, but my point was simply that in addition to his Wartime service, whatever that actually was, he was a phenomenally powerful writer.
Of course, we're all anonymous here, but I've had no connection with Clostermann at all.
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It is Scapa Floe.
I had several heroes at the time of the BoB. New ones were made every day on the radio and in the newspapers. Bader, Tuck, Mouchotte, Malan, Charles then Gibson, Cheshire, Tait...on and on the list goes. Later in life my views changed slightly when I realised that there many unsung heroes who had performed magnificent acts of bravery and some of those I had worshipped were after all flawed. Closterman was one Bader was another and very recently I read in Max Hastings' book, Warriors, that Gibson was worse than most. Bader always claimed he was involved in a mid-air. The RAF think differently and have him recorded as being shot down. Digging in the records it appears that this was indeed the case and perhaps a case of vanity.
Heroes nonetheless but they cannot be all things to all men can they?
I had several heroes at the time of the BoB. New ones were made every day on the radio and in the newspapers. Bader, Tuck, Mouchotte, Malan, Charles then Gibson, Cheshire, Tait...on and on the list goes. Later in life my views changed slightly when I realised that there many unsung heroes who had performed magnificent acts of bravery and some of those I had worshipped were after all flawed. Closterman was one Bader was another and very recently I read in Max Hastings' book, Warriors, that Gibson was worse than most. Bader always claimed he was involved in a mid-air. The RAF think differently and have him recorded as being shot down. Digging in the records it appears that this was indeed the case and perhaps a case of vanity.
Heroes nonetheless but they cannot be all things to all men can they?
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'While Bader may have been unbearably arrogant and egotistical, and while he may have inflated claims for his Wing (at least), he looked after his blokes and inspired enormous dedication and loyalty'.
Knew a few people over the years who were not enamoured with DB, and came across this recently in 'The Colditz Myth', by S P Mackenzie, published by OUP 2004:
'When I first got to Colditz', remembered Alec Ross, 'I thought that this is going to be a good place', noting that everyone was on first-name terms. He was less happy when the legless Douglas Bader, to whom he was assigned as personal batman, blocked his repatriation as a member of the RAMC in 1943. 'Hauptmann Pupke came into the courtyard and he called me down. "Good news, Ross," he says. "You're going home." Douglas Bader happened to be there, and he said, "No he's bloody not. He came here as my lackey and he'll stay as my lackey" ' As a result, 'I had to stay another two bloody years when I could have gone home with the rest of my mates'. By January 1943, after eighteen months in the camp, the new orderlies were requesting through the Protecting Power that they be relieved and sent elsewhere.
LXXIV
Knew a few people over the years who were not enamoured with DB, and came across this recently in 'The Colditz Myth', by S P Mackenzie, published by OUP 2004:
'When I first got to Colditz', remembered Alec Ross, 'I thought that this is going to be a good place', noting that everyone was on first-name terms. He was less happy when the legless Douglas Bader, to whom he was assigned as personal batman, blocked his repatriation as a member of the RAMC in 1943. 'Hauptmann Pupke came into the courtyard and he called me down. "Good news, Ross," he says. "You're going home." Douglas Bader happened to be there, and he said, "No he's bloody not. He came here as my lackey and he'll stay as my lackey" ' As a result, 'I had to stay another two bloody years when I could have gone home with the rest of my mates'. By January 1943, after eighteen months in the camp, the new orderlies were requesting through the Protecting Power that they be relieved and sent elsewhere.
LXXIV
Cool Mod
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Tourist,
You can take it up with the RN they seem to think its Floe and some birdwatchers too. There are some who think its Flow just Google either as an example.
Btw, Pop is not Pup, but then again....................................who cares!
You can take it up with the RN they seem to think its Floe and some birdwatchers too. There are some who think its Flow just Google either as an example.
Btw, Pop is not Pup, but then again....................................who cares!
Bit along the lines of the big French bloke who tried to stop the Guards closing the gate at Hougoumont at the battle of Waterloo.
Any other of our enemies who have been inspirational in their combat against us?
Any other of our enemies who have been inspirational in their combat against us?
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I enjoyed 'the Big show', I appreciated that there may have been some poetic licence applied to it, but even so a good read.
But one thing to add to pot when considering an airmans behaviour when in the heat of battle. How a Pilot behaves when he is a national of an invaded country, most probably aware of atrocities inflicted on people and family by countryman of aircraft he is about to face in battle. So when one appears (an ME or FW) he goes all out to avenge these atrocities, without any care for himself let alone his wingman - not that this justifies leaving a wingman - but it might explain it.
There are examples of the Poles putting the rule book to one side to get at the Germans and I am sure that the Free French also felt that they should do all things possible, whether they be right or not, to get their country back.
But one thing to add to pot when considering an airmans behaviour when in the heat of battle. How a Pilot behaves when he is a national of an invaded country, most probably aware of atrocities inflicted on people and family by countryman of aircraft he is about to face in battle. So when one appears (an ME or FW) he goes all out to avenge these atrocities, without any care for himself let alone his wingman - not that this justifies leaving a wingman - but it might explain it.
There are examples of the Poles putting the rule book to one side to get at the Germans and I am sure that the Free French also felt that they should do all things possible, whether they be right or not, to get their country back.
