Norman Kember Freed
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Of course if we hadn't invaded in the first place Kember and his mates could have been having tea and biscuits with Saddam at one of his palaces and we wouldn't have needed to have rescued him
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Originally Posted by RileyDove
Of course if we hadn't invaded in the first place Kember and his mates could have been having tea and biscuits with Saddam at one of his palaces and we wouldn't have needed to have rescued him
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No one has picked up on the last paragraph of the ‘Telegraph’ article (see airborne artist’s link to it on p2).
So let me see if I have this right. Coalition forces have a man in custody who is ‘one of the leaders’ of a criminal gang that they know has murdered one of its captives. They allow him to ring his gang to allow them to get away before the assault by SF troops.
We have indeed moved into a strange dimension in ‘law enforcement’.
Why does my bull**** meter detect a strong whiff of domestic political interference here at very high, even the highest levels, to ensure that no one on either side got hurt in this rescue so as to appease these Christian peace activists?
Thank God or Allah or whomever you like that there wasn’t one – just one – individual in that criminal gang who wasn’t a closet zealot who didn’t immediately warn his friends of similar mind in time for them to prepare a reception party hell bent on taking as many infidels with them before the survivors of the rescue team sent them all to Paradise.
Of course I don't know all the facts, but some might accuse the commander who made the decision to allow that call to be made to be playing loose with the lives of his men.
A deal had been struck with a man detained the previous night who was one of the leaders of the kidnappers. He was allowed a telephone call to warn his henchmen to leave the kidnap house. When the troops moved in and found the prisoners alive, they also let him go as promised.
We have indeed moved into a strange dimension in ‘law enforcement’.
Why does my bull**** meter detect a strong whiff of domestic political interference here at very high, even the highest levels, to ensure that no one on either side got hurt in this rescue so as to appease these Christian peace activists?
Thank God or Allah or whomever you like that there wasn’t one – just one – individual in that criminal gang who wasn’t a closet zealot who didn’t immediately warn his friends of similar mind in time for them to prepare a reception party hell bent on taking as many infidels with them before the survivors of the rescue team sent them all to Paradise.
Of course I don't know all the facts, but some might accuse the commander who made the decision to allow that call to be made to be playing loose with the lives of his men.
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I was so bl00dy incensed yesterday to see that woman on TV telling the world that the military should not have been involved in freeing Kember. What a bunch of ungrateful fools.
I think that we should have tied a label on the guy and sent the old sod back! Maybe parachute him in with a label saying 'we don't want him back, you can keep him! if nothing else, it might send a message to the kidnappers maybe?? I hope the others are a little more grateful.
Well done to the boys from H and the others involved, a first class job.
Kind regards
TSM
I think that we should have tied a label on the guy and sent the old sod back! Maybe parachute him in with a label saying 'we don't want him back, you can keep him! if nothing else, it might send a message to the kidnappers maybe?? I hope the others are a little more grateful.
Well done to the boys from H and the others involved, a first class job.
Kind regards
TSM
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Our SAS boys should have just got the canadians out and left the old fool who "didn't want to be rescued in a military op if he should be held captive" behind!! or maybe they would have if they had known his views
!!
!!
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Perhaps HMG should announce immediately that in future the wishes of such "Peace Campaigners" will be respected and that NO attempts will be made to rescue them against their wishes -WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES!!
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The Foreign Office has a website of places you might not wish to visit
If you are intelligent, you may take their advice and not go there
Sadly, however, we have theses ares&les who do
Norman Kermber is a very lucky man -thanks to the expertise and professionlism of the SAS who have salvaged his, and, many other situations , he was rerscued!
I have had the privilege and pleasure to work with the SAS and SBS on many ocassions, and I am glad they are in my gang!
If you are intelligent, you may take their advice and not go there
Sadly, however, we have theses ares&les who do
Norman Kermber is a very lucky man -thanks to the expertise and professionlism of the SAS who have salvaged his, and, many other situations , he was rerscued!
I have had the privilege and pleasure to work with the SAS and SBS on many ocassions, and I am glad they are in my gang!
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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What I wanna know is: why is there a rozzer stood outside Kember's house? If the press are getting too heavy then he should employ security guards - not sponge off my taxes.
That rozzer could be out catching potential criminals.
VFE.
That rozzer could be out catching potential criminals.
VFE.
Red On, Green On
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Interesting to compare Kember with John Hudspith, held hostage in Nigeria, who said when freed ""My thanks go to all those responsible for securing my release and all those that played a part, however small."
From BBCi
From BBCi
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why is there a rozzer stood outside Kember's house?
Interesting that so many people (the media included) think that he was eventually grateful towards the military that rescused him. I understand that he's a press officer for this bunch well-intentioned, but utterly naive fools and it showed in his full statement. Unsurprisingly, the media quoted a small part, (supposedly pointing out his particular thanks to the military) and so people have leapt upon it happily. When you look at the preceding sentence, see if you think the meaning is the same:
Another group that I hope you do not forget are the relatives of British soldiers killed or wounded in Iraq.
I do not believe that a lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my release.
I do not believe that a lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my release.
...I thank all who supported Pat...
...the Embassy staff who worked so diligently for our release.
...the staff in Britain...
...those from many faith communities who appealed for my release and held prayers and vigils in my name.
...the media...
...the Embassy staff who worked so diligently for our release.
...the staff in Britain...
...those from many faith communities who appealed for my release and held prayers and vigils in my name.
...the media...
Gatvol
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From reading all the posts on this issue, I think the general consensus is that at least WE all thank those in uniform for doing a great job and rescuing these usless lives. Then going on to do other work without us even knowing who they were.
Heres hoping they can at least get a litttle decoration for their heroism. Why is it we always remember the a55holes but we dont know the heros.........
Just make sure if you see some young lad in Uniform in the Pub, you make sure he does not have to reach for his wallet.
Heres hoping they can at least get a litttle decoration for their heroism. Why is it we always remember the a55holes but we dont know the heros.........
Just make sure if you see some young lad in Uniform in the Pub, you make sure he does not have to reach for his wallet.
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Just make sure if you see some young lad in Uniform in the Pub, you make sure he does not have to reach for his wallet.
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Apologies for the duplication as I pointed this out on another thread, but Kember's pacificism is not restricted to Tony's war in Iraq.
Kember refused National Service in 1949 - refusing to stand up against the Russians at the time of the Berlin airlift, the Rape of Eastern Europe and the Gulag.
Perhaps more charitably, I'm reminded of that perceptive phrase in the Introduction to "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis: 'We are told that men grow wiser as the grow older, but I often think they grow more foolish'.
Hear, hear!
Kember refused National Service in 1949 - refusing to stand up against the Russians at the time of the Berlin airlift, the Rape of Eastern Europe and the Gulag.
Perhaps more charitably, I'm reminded of that perceptive phrase in the Introduction to "Sagittarius Rising" by Cecil Lewis: 'We are told that men grow wiser as the grow older, but I often think they grow more foolish'.
Hear, hear!
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Originally Posted by Wiley
I really think any such people planning to go to Iraq should be left in absolutely no doubt as to their status should they be taken hostage. It should be clearly pointed out that no effort will be spent and no risk of life taken in attempting a rescue. End of story.
Root'n tooting chaps we got here. Since when did the armed forces ever do anything for "thanks" anyway? Has it really gone that soft now that you're considered jack for forgetting the pleasantries?
Please.
Footless Halls: I don't doubt that Kember refused National Service. But are you saying that this refusal is a refusal "to stand up against the russians", the "rape" of Eastern Europe and the Gulag ? If that actually was the case, maybe he has seen the error of his ways, his mission in Iraq perhaps being somewhat cathartic?
Last edited by Dave Martin; 30th Mar 2006 at 21:31.
The British military announced today that they had air-dropped former hostages Norman Kembler, James Loony and Harmeet Singh Sooden into the Iraqidesert, just a week after their rescue from a house west of Baghdad. The men had been held by insurgents for four months.
Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.
"We realize now that we made a huge mistake," said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, "and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect."
Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.
"To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night," he said. "They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!"
The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.
"The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see," he said. "The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn't a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out."
The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.
"The cartoons really did the trick," said Captain Coates. "As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better."
Coates would not comment on reports that the three men were all wearing "Jesus Rules, Mohammed Drools" T-Shirts.
Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.
"We realize now that we made a huge mistake," said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, "and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect."
Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.
"To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night," he said. "They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!"
The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.
"The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see," he said. "The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn't a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out."
The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.
"The cartoons really did the trick," said Captain Coates. "As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better."
Coates would not comment on reports that the three men were all wearing "Jesus Rules, Mohammed Drools" T-Shirts.
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Uniform in Hospital
At risk of thread drift here but having had the misfortune to end up in a hospital on Friday night in rig, I received nothing but a few wolf whistles, a couple of sarcy comments from drunks and a few appreciative comments from females. If any of the staff had asked me to change when I was trying to help my seriously ill wife I would have had strong words with them.
However, I might also have a few words with a lad if I found him in uniform in a pub, purely because in this country he might risk a serious beating from the locals.
I never expected thanks for doing the job I do but occassionally it would be nice to have some respect for being in an organisation where you might risk your life for Queen and Country, something many in this country would not do. The UK general public seem to hold the Armed Forces in particular contempt, Kember is just at the extreme of the scale.
However, I might also have a few words with a lad if I found him in uniform in a pub, purely because in this country he might risk a serious beating from the locals.
I never expected thanks for doing the job I do but occassionally it would be nice to have some respect for being in an organisation where you might risk your life for Queen and Country, something many in this country would not do. The UK general public seem to hold the Armed Forces in particular contempt, Kember is just at the extreme of the scale.
Footless Halls,
The "rape of Eastern Europe"? Why on earth should Norman Kember "stand up" to that when the partition of Europe was agreed by Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill? If you mean the Rape of Berlin and Eastern Germany by the Red Army, may I remind you that they were on our side when that outrage occurred!
The man is a pacifist and therefore is merely being consistent, he has the courage of his convictions. I think he is wrong but that does not mean I don't admire certain things about the man.
Whiteovies,
I see many servicemen in uniform in and around my haunts of Oxford and London, not many in uniform in pubs but I always thought that was not allowed anyway? Why on earth would someone want to go for a night out in uniform?
They don't seem to attract any other contempt or hostility than any other recogniseable group of individuals.
As for being asked to remove your uniform in a hospital because it may offend someone, what tosh! Offend who exactly? I hope the individual concerned gave a very abrupt and robust reply.
Don't some of our largest hospitals have quite substantial numbers of military personnel serving at them since the Tories dismantled the military hospitals?
The "rape of Eastern Europe"? Why on earth should Norman Kember "stand up" to that when the partition of Europe was agreed by Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill? If you mean the Rape of Berlin and Eastern Germany by the Red Army, may I remind you that they were on our side when that outrage occurred!
The man is a pacifist and therefore is merely being consistent, he has the courage of his convictions. I think he is wrong but that does not mean I don't admire certain things about the man.
Whiteovies,
I see many servicemen in uniform in and around my haunts of Oxford and London, not many in uniform in pubs but I always thought that was not allowed anyway? Why on earth would someone want to go for a night out in uniform?
They don't seem to attract any other contempt or hostility than any other recogniseable group of individuals.
As for being asked to remove your uniform in a hospital because it may offend someone, what tosh! Offend who exactly? I hope the individual concerned gave a very abrupt and robust reply.
Don't some of our largest hospitals have quite substantial numbers of military personnel serving at them since the Tories dismantled the military hospitals?
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A few weeks after 911 occurred my wife had to take the parents of a child whom she was treating in a London hospital to one side. When she had politely finished asking the couple to remove the t-shirt from their healthier child which was emblazoned with a picture of the moment one of the airliners hit topped with some Arabic writing that essentially said, 'Bl00dy Brilliant' they stared in amazement at her for restricting their freedom to do what they wanted.
I'm as mellow a chap as you could meet on a fair day but my blood boiled at that one. Kember has the look and mannerisms of a person that would take the stance most guaranteed to rile any decent person.
In a Baghdad styly all chant, 'send him back...send him back etc'
I'm as mellow a chap as you could meet on a fair day but my blood boiled at that one. Kember has the look and mannerisms of a person that would take the stance most guaranteed to rile any decent person.
In a Baghdad styly all chant, 'send him back...send him back etc'