JSF: Drayson Bats For Britain
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JSF: Drayson Bats For Britain
The esteemed Lord Drayson is in America giving those Yank chappies a jolly good dressing down over their confounded JSF carry on.
Yes, he's telling them in no uncertain terms just how cross we are and how we expect them to buck up their ideas, and be quick about it. The noble Lord is not fooling around. He's making it plain that we are seriously miffed, and if things go on like this, well, we might just have go elsewhere for shiny new fighters. This JSF situation won't do. It won't do at all.
HMG is dashed angry. And in case anyone thinks the UK is totally over a barrel and has no choice but to be led about by the nose while those dashed Americans fall around laughing at our kinda funny accents and stoopid ideas of partnership, well Lord Drayson has made it very, very clear he means business.
"We are determined to make a success of the Joint Strike Fighter. We still want and need this aircraft."
-- Drayson to Senate Armed Services Committee, 14 March
That's bally well telling them your Lordship. They'll have to sit up and take notice now.
Good show what.
Yes, he's telling them in no uncertain terms just how cross we are and how we expect them to buck up their ideas, and be quick about it. The noble Lord is not fooling around. He's making it plain that we are seriously miffed, and if things go on like this, well, we might just have go elsewhere for shiny new fighters. This JSF situation won't do. It won't do at all.
HMG is dashed angry. And in case anyone thinks the UK is totally over a barrel and has no choice but to be led about by the nose while those dashed Americans fall around laughing at our kinda funny accents and stoopid ideas of partnership, well Lord Drayson has made it very, very clear he means business.
"We are determined to make a success of the Joint Strike Fighter. We still want and need this aircraft."
-- Drayson to Senate Armed Services Committee, 14 March
That's bally well telling them your Lordship. They'll have to sit up and take notice now.
Good show what.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BRITAIN yesterday threatened to scrap a planned £10 billion purchase of the new Joint Strike Fighter if the United States refuses it access to American military secrets.
Lord Drayson, the Minister for Defence Procurement, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that Britain would lose sovereign control without the technology transfer deal. The transfer is being resisted by both Congress and Lockheed Martin, which fears that it would mean handing over preciously guarded stealth aircraft technology to industrial competitors in the UK.....
Lord Drayson’s comments, on a trip to Washington yesterday, represent a significant escalation in a diplomatic row that has rumbled on, largely in private, for several months.
Speaking to reporters before the showdown with Senators, he said: “We should be absolutely clear about what our bottom line is on this matter . . . we will not be able to purchase the aircraft.”
Lord Drayson, the Minister for Defence Procurement, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that Britain would lose sovereign control without the technology transfer deal. The transfer is being resisted by both Congress and Lockheed Martin, which fears that it would mean handing over preciously guarded stealth aircraft technology to industrial competitors in the UK.....
Lord Drayson’s comments, on a trip to Washington yesterday, represent a significant escalation in a diplomatic row that has rumbled on, largely in private, for several months.
Speaking to reporters before the showdown with Senators, he said: “We should be absolutely clear about what our bottom line is on this matter . . . we will not be able to purchase the aircraft.”
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JSF
Cutting between the threads, I am left with the impression that MinDP is in the States with a bad attack of: "Does my bum look big in this?"
The problem with the fighter, Dr Jensen says, is that it can be relatively easily detected from the rear.
Speaking to reporters before the showdown with Senators, (Lord Drayson) said: “We should be absolutely clear about what our bottom line is on this matter . . . we will not be able to purchase the aircraft.
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Well, I'd be quite glad if we got Rafale, or any other off-the-shelf new generation aircraft that fits the role, or could be adapted to fit the role.
I'm beginning to get tired of the feeling that our people and our quality of life are being mortgaged against high value aquisition (sp?) programmes which are not running especially smoothly. I can accept that the need for modern kit is pressing, and I can stomach the fact that money has to be found from a shrinking budget. It seems to me that (alongside the capability gap) issues a driving force in the choice of programme (JSF/JCA) is political, aimed at protecting our position on the world stage. So be it - I'm not a politician and don't properly understand such issues.
However, if the choice has to be made between quality of life and new kit, surely we (them, the govt...) owe it to our people (us, the services...) to make the pain as brief as possible. It seems to me that the JSF programme is increasingly becoming an albatross around our collective necks, and that we ought to be brave and step away from the programme. To me, it's time for a tough decision.
I think Rafale would be a sensible choice for our needs, but I admit that is largely based what I've read and seen in the media and here at my station rather than intimate knowledge of the air requirement or whatever it's called. Or in any case, there is enough existing and impressive technology available from other sources that we can look further afield than the JSF programme.
What do you think?
I'm beginning to get tired of the feeling that our people and our quality of life are being mortgaged against high value aquisition (sp?) programmes which are not running especially smoothly. I can accept that the need for modern kit is pressing, and I can stomach the fact that money has to be found from a shrinking budget. It seems to me that (alongside the capability gap) issues a driving force in the choice of programme (JSF/JCA) is political, aimed at protecting our position on the world stage. So be it - I'm not a politician and don't properly understand such issues.
However, if the choice has to be made between quality of life and new kit, surely we (them, the govt...) owe it to our people (us, the services...) to make the pain as brief as possible. It seems to me that the JSF programme is increasingly becoming an albatross around our collective necks, and that we ought to be brave and step away from the programme. To me, it's time for a tough decision.
I think Rafale would be a sensible choice for our needs, but I admit that is largely based what I've read and seen in the media and here at my station rather than intimate knowledge of the air requirement or whatever it's called. Or in any case, there is enough existing and impressive technology available from other sources that we can look further afield than the JSF programme.
What do you think?
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If we back out of the JSF project at this stage it will be a national disgrace, but Paul Drayson is right. We cannot allow the Septics to sell us an aircraft without the software codes.
Its not only about the software codes (for integrating future UK only weapons for example), it also includes gaining a sovereign capability to maintain/fix/check the LO signature throughout the in service.
Tarnished
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JSF in the news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4811250.stm
Ministers have warned that the deal to buy the Joint Strike Fighter from the US ... may fall through.
Lord Drayson said: the UK had a "Plan B" if forced to withdraw from the deal but declined to say what that involved.
Why would Lossiemouth be affected if we went for a different a/c?
Ministers have warned that the deal to buy the Joint Strike Fighter from the US ... may fall through.
Lord Drayson said: the UK had a "Plan B" if forced to withdraw from the deal but declined to say what that involved.
Why would Lossiemouth be affected if we went for a different a/c?
F
k me; a post from Southside I actually agree with. Wonders will never cease!!!!! ( Sorry guys I apologise!
)
Blunt M8
If we end up with Rafale we should be completely embarrassed! Even more of a national disgrace than the England v France match last weekend!!!!
k me; a post from Southside I actually agree with. Wonders will never cease!!!!! ( Sorry guys I apologise! )Blunt M8
If we end up with Rafale we should be completely embarrassed! Even more of a national disgrace than the England v France match last weekend!!!!
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Just so you know where you stand...
"If anyone can get something for free, they'll take it."
Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England dismisses British concerns yesterday, while noting that the UK has 'only' invested $2 billion in the JSF programme but the US would be funding the entire $2.4 billion F136 'back up' engine effort.
Meanwhile Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne says it would be a "profound choice" for the UK to leave the programme and that the US would like y'all to remain in the JSF partnership.
Translation: ...and the limey horse you rode in on.
Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England dismisses British concerns yesterday, while noting that the UK has 'only' invested $2 billion in the JSF programme but the US would be funding the entire $2.4 billion F136 'back up' engine effort.
Meanwhile Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne says it would be a "profound choice" for the UK to leave the programme and that the US would like y'all to remain in the JSF partnership.
Translation: ...and the limey horse you rode in on.
Originally Posted by Tarnished
Its not only about the software codes (for integrating future UK only weapons for example), it also includes gaining a sovereign capability to maintain/fix/check the LO signature throughout the in service.
Tarnished
Tarnished
Last edited by LowObservable; 16th Mar 2006 at 17:11.
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More detail is at the MoD site and comment on the F-35 second engine is at scotsman.com
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
That's fair. But if you're trying to sell me a car, refuse to sell me the workshop manual and insist it has to be serviced in your garage, at your rates, throughout it's life - don't be surprised if I shake hands, thank you for the tour, and walk over to the dealer on the other side of the street....
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
A lot of people might want a BMW, but after checking their sums end up buying a ford, or peugot, or citroen. It doesn´t have to be the best, just good enough for the job, affordable and maintainable. And if you want to know how the UK does its sums - we bought the Jag, not the F16, the F3 not the F15 etc. So if the USA thinks the UK will have to buy the JSF just because its the best, they might be in for a shock. And the UK are not the only ones doing the same sums - so are Australia and Norway.
Originally Posted by ORAC
That's fair. But if you're trying to sell me a car, refuse to sell me the workshop manual and insist it has to be serviced in your garage, at your rates, throughout it's life - don't be surprised if I shake hands, thank you for the tour, and walk over to the dealer on the other side of the street....
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Originally Posted by Roland Pulfrew
If we end up with Rafale we should be completely embarrassed!
Originally Posted by Roland Pulfrew
Even more of a national disgrace than the England v France match last weekend!!!!
As I said before, I haven't got a whole bunch of wizzy facts about Rafale so I can't really put forward a strong argument, but I'd be keen to hear arguments against Rafale, and for another platform if we did pull out of JSF.
Sorry - not trying to stir up trouble.
Blunty